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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 15:14:11 GMT -5
Yeah you could try Goof Off, but be careful, it still could damage the plastic.
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Post by John Shelley on Mar 9, 2014 16:10:25 GMT -5
got some other mild, plastic safe options i might try also, and thinking this blender fan might be another good candidate for the 'brass' treat meant I did on that K55 one with the trashed finish. Motor tested fine of course the bearings are going to need to be repacked with new grease or just replaced out right, cap says 4uf, tested at 4.75 which is a bit over but it should be OK for now, the pull chain had dirty contacts, at first only high worked on the switch, I was able to save the pull chain switch though, and i think I should just start a topic about this fan at this rate.
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Post by JW on Mar 9, 2014 19:22:29 GMT -5
got some other mild, plastic safe options i might try also, and thinking this blender fan might be another good candidate for the 'brass' treat meant I did on that K55 one with the trashed finish. Motor tested fine of course the bearings are going to need to be repacked with new grease or just replaced out right, cap says 4uf, tested at 4.75 which is a bit over but it should be OK for now, the pull chain had dirty contacts, at first only high worked on the switch, I was able to save the pull chain switch though, and i think I should just start a topic about this fan at this rate. Some 52" K63 blenders had 4uf caps... others had 5uf. I'm not sure how they decided which fans got which caps or if they just randomly placed them, but there is a HUGE difference in speed. I swapped my 4 with a 5 and it runs at the same speeds one equipped with a 5 does... I run it for hours at a time, no problems.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 19:26:27 GMT -5
got some other mild, plastic safe options i might try also, and thinking this blender fan might be another good candidate for the 'brass' treat meant I did on that K55 one with the trashed finish. Motor tested fine of course the bearings are going to need to be repacked with new grease or just replaced out right, cap says 4uf, tested at 4.75 which is a bit over but it should be OK for now, the pull chain had dirty contacts, at first only high worked on the switch, I was able to save the pull chain switch though, and i think I should just start a topic about this fan at this rate. Some 52" K63 blenders had 4uf caps... others had 5uf. I'm not sure how they decided which fans got which caps or if they just randomly placed them, but there is a HUGE difference in speed. I swapped my 4 with a 5 and it runs at the same speeds one equipped with a 5 does... I run it for hours at a time, no problems. Did you check it with an ampmeter? As long as it pulls no more amps than what is listed on the nameplate, it should be fine.
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Post by John Shelley on Mar 9, 2014 19:44:30 GMT -5
Some 52" K63 blenders had 4uf caps... others had 5uf. I'm not sure how they decided which fans got which caps or if they just randomly placed them, but there is a HUGE difference in speed. I swapped my 4 with a 5 and it runs at the same speeds one equipped with a 5 does... I run it for hours at a time, no problems. Did you check it with an ampmeter? As long as it pulls no more amps than what is listed on the nameplate, it should be fine. once I put the blades on it I will, Ive very much inclined to do what JW said and put a 5 in it, as long as it stays under 2.1 amps its in spec.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 21:05:04 GMT -5
Did you check it with an ampmeter? As long as it pulls no more amps than what is listed on the nameplate, it should be fine. once I put the blades on it I will, Ive very much inclined to do what JW said and put a 5 in it, as long as it stays under 2.1 amps its in spec. If you're going to change the cap, I'd be interested in the amp readings with both values.
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Post by John Shelley on Mar 9, 2014 21:10:25 GMT -5
once I put the blades on it I will, Ive very much inclined to do what JW said and put a 5 in it, as long as it stays under 2.1 amps its in spec. If you're going to change the cap, I'd be interested in the amp readings with both values. will do, ill get the amp draw with it still using the existing cap that reads 4.75 on my meter, a cap with known 4.0 reading and a 5.0 but i need to get to the motor shop to pick up some more bearings, that wont happen till tomorrow, ill check it then and get back to you
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 21:16:53 GMT -5
If you're going to change the cap, I'd be interested in the amp readings with both values. will do, ill get the amp draw with it still using the existing cap that reads 4.75 on my meter, a cap with known 4.0 reading and a 5.0 but i need to get to the motor shop to pick up some more bearings, that wont happen till tomorrow, ill check it then and get back to you I cant say this enough times: I get my bearings from Fastenal. Check them out
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Post by John Shelley on Mar 10, 2014 9:36:58 GMT -5
will do, ill get the amp draw with it still using the existing cap that reads 4.75 on my meter, a cap with known 4.0 reading and a 5.0 but i need to get to the motor shop to pick up some more bearings, that wont happen till tomorrow, ill check it then and get back to you I cant say this enough times: I get my bearings from Fastenal. Check them out okay performance data for a 52" 15° pitch 4 plastic blade k63 blender fan: 4uf, 1.1 amp 195 rpm 51% slip 5uf, 1.25 amp 245 rpm 39% slip 6uf 1.45 amp 250 rpm 38% slip 7.5uf 1.7 amp 230 rpm 43% slip So clearly the jump from 4 to 5 is worth it, 12% current increase for a 25% speed increase, meaning its more efficient with 5 so the motor will run cooler despite the slight current increase. 6uf increase the speed by a tiny amount, but not worth the current increase and it just gets worse at values higher than that. JW is right about going to 5uf. Edit the stuff in quotes is based on faulty data the correct amp draw for the k55 is .85 see my newest post for the corrected data Just for comparison my 52" 14° pitch 3 plastic blade k55 blender fans run at 260-265 rpm, and draw about .95-1 amp (I'll double check later) Now for the interesting part, looking at the ratios of the speeds and pitches, the speed difference is the same ratio as the pitch difference. SO therefore I can say that the only reason they run at different speeds is the different pitch, but the k63 has 4 blades not 3 which means 33% more surface area and also 33% more airflow and drag. So the K63 is about 33% more powerful than the k55, and it only uses about 30% more electricity. So it looks like its slightly more efficient than the k55, and paradoxically it there for should run a bit cooler, perhaps all the overheating issues with k63s were just due to Casablanca (and even Emerson them selves) using the 4uf rather than the 5uf cap in some 52" fans. And Dan I take used but still good bearings off junk motors at that shop for use in my fans when I can, can't beat free.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 11:46:10 GMT -5
The overheating issues are because K63 motors do not have sufficient ventilation to cool the windings in an "air over" design.
I'm shocked at how low the current draws are. I definitely have some K63's that draw more than that.
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Post by John Shelley on Mar 10, 2014 12:22:44 GMT -5
The overheating issues are because K63 motors do not have sufficient ventilation to cool the windings in an "air over" design. Casablancas having the inner ends of the blades father from the motor than Emersons probably made it even worse... that's probably why Emerson had the housing shaped they way they did on the k63 plastic fans with the big oval vents(didn't some one call those kitchen fans?)/ToCs, to help guide air over the motor, Casablanca using a k63 side like the smaller one used on some 36" benders definitely didn't help, what im saying is the semi open k63 bender fan motor probably is going to do if anything better than the k55 blenderfan motor, temperature wise. Actually the k55 blenderfan motor, is not the same as the k55 used in other Emersons or Casablancas, it has 33mm stator, where as those use a 25 or 28 mm stator I'm shocked at how low the current draws are. I definitely have some K63's that draw more than that. do they say 2.6 or 2.1 on the lower canopy? I'm sure the 2.6 draws more than my 2.1, and those might be the locked rotor amps, wish i had one that said 2.6 on the canopy also to compare with this one the thing about the 5 uf cap should work with the 2.6's also.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 14:50:47 GMT -5
The overheating issues are because K63 motors do not have sufficient ventilation to cool the windings in an "air over" design. Casablancas having the inner ends of the blades father from the motor than Emersons probably made it even worse... that's probably why Emerson had the housing shaped they way they did on the k63 plastic fans with the big oval vents(didn't some one call those kitchen fans?)/ToCs, to help guide air over the motor, Casablanca using a k63 side like the smaller one used on some 36" benders definitely didn't help, what im saying is the semi open k63 bender fan motor probably is going to do if anything better than the k55 blenderfan motor, temperature wise. Actually the k55 blenderfan motor, is not the same as the k55 used in other Emersons or Casablancas, it has 33mm stator, where as those use a 25 or 28 mm stator I'm shocked at how low the current draws are. I definitely have some K63's that draw more than that. do they say 2.6 or 2.1 on the lower canopy? I'm sure the 2.6 draws more than my 2.1, and those might be the locked rotor amps, wish i had one that said 2.6 on the canopy also to compare with this one the thing about the 5 uf cap should work with the 2.6's also. I do not know, I will have to check. The problem is that there are no vents in the K63 housing except for the few right near the bearings.
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Post by John Shelley on Mar 10, 2014 15:27:49 GMT -5
Seems about as well vented as any other open drip poof motor to me....perhaps some 'fins' on the blade arms like the heat cyclers have would be good idea to move more air right around the motor, are they more prone to overheating when in housing, like casablancas as opposed to bender fans?
Edit new chart with the correct data for the k55
performance data for a 52" 15° pitch 4 plastic blade k63 blender fan: 4uf 1.1 amp 195 rpm 51% slip 5uf 1.25 amp 245 rpm 39% slip 6uf 1.45 amp 250 rpm 38% slip 7.5uf 1.7 amp 230 rpm 43% slip and here is the data for my 52" 14° pitch 3 plastic blade k55 blender fans 10uf .85 amp 260 rpm 35% slip
So clearly the jump from 4uf to 5uf in a k63 is worth it, 12% current increase for a 25% speed increase, meaning its more efficient with 5uf so the motor will run cooler despite the slight current increase.
Going from 5uf to 6uf increases the speed by a tiny amount, but not worth the current increase and it just gets worse at values higher than that. JW is right about going to 5uf.
Now for the interesting part, looking at the ratios of the speeds and pitches, the speed difference is the same ratio as the pitch difference. SO therefore I can say that the only reason they run at different speeds is the different pitch, but the k63 has 4 blades not 3 which means 33% more surface area and also 33% more airflow and drag. So the K63 is about 33% more powerful than the k55, It uses %50 more electricity though. So it looks to be a bit less efficient explaining why it runs hotter. Please note that until I do a test where the k55 and k63 use the exact same blade configuration I can't be 100% sure which is the more efficient motor it may very well turn out that the k63 does better than the k55 if I make both run with 3 blades or both run with 4 blades.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 22:36:59 GMT -5
I dont see how it will actually run cooler-- it is drawing more current. More current = more heat. However a lower PERCENTAGE of the current becomes heat.
K63 has a lot less ventilation than a K55 or any other motor. Compare the end bells. Also, in most cases there are vents in the sides of the stator housings. Not in blenders, however. A blenderfan is a bad example.
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Post by John Shelley on Mar 10, 2014 23:12:14 GMT -5
I dont see how it will actually run cooler-- it is drawing more current. More current = more heat. However a lower PERCENTAGE of the current becomes heat. K63 has a lot less ventilation than a K55 or any other motor. Compare the end bells. Also, in most cases there are vents in the sides of the stator housings. Not in blenders, however. A blenderfan is a bad example. okay but int eh case of the 5uf cap that air flow goes up more than the current so it draw heat away faster, thats why it woudl runn coller than way than with the 4uf cap, in theory anyway, in practice I'd expect it to run about the same temp either way, but the imporat thing is this with the revised k55 it's clear that eh k63 would be hotter running motor as its a bit less efficient, I do wonder how the efficiency would change if i swapped the flywheels and blade sets around, i must go test it some time.
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