dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 25, 2020 12:32:03 GMT -5
My particular examples of Early version vs. Late version imports both run at 203 rpm which is higher than the rating for the early one and lower than the new rating. I don't know to what extent you can take those manufacture ratings as entirely accurate but it could also just be a coincidence. The build quality is excellent on both of them.
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Post by Noah C on Apr 25, 2020 21:07:46 GMT -5
My particular examples of Early version vs. Late version imports both run at 203 rpm which is higher than the rating for the early one and lower than the new rating. I don't know to what extent you can take those manufacture ratings as entirely accurate but it could also just be a coincidence. The build quality is excellent on both of them. Got a few questions for you here: 1. As for the RPM, how did you calculate it so accurately? You must have really sharp vision! 2. I know your sunroom original is installed with four blades but last I saw your new Original it was installed with five. Did you only use four blades while testing RPM? Manufacturers' RPM ratings are usually off by a little; they're a good estimation but you gotta test the fan in real life. For example the "197 RPM" old skeletal original is usually more like 175 or 180 RPM w/ all five blades. The new ones are generally around 190-200 RPM five blades. If both of your fans are 203 RPM, that's fast for an old skeletal original even with four blades, and right on for a new one.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 25, 2020 21:45:17 GMT -5
My particular examples of Early version vs. Late version imports both run at 203 rpm which is higher than the rating for the early one and lower than the new rating. I don't know to what extent you can take those manufacture ratings as entirely accurate but it could also just be a coincidence. The build quality is excellent on both of them. Got a few questions for you here: 1. As for the RPM, how did you calculate it so accurately? You must have really sharp vision! 2. I know your sunroom original is installed with four blades but last I saw your new Original it was installed with five. Did you only use four blades while testing RPM? Manufacturers' RPM ratings are usually off by a little; they're a good estimation but you gotta test the fan in real life. For example the "197 RPM" old skeletal original is usually more like 175 or 180 RPM w/ all five blades. The new ones are generally around 190-200 RPM five blades. If both of your fans are 203 RPM, that's fast for an old skeletal original even with four blades, and right on for a new one. Hey Noah, good question. I was trying to come up with a reliable way to check the rpm. I have a video editor that allows me to slow down the speed and count but I didn't have the patience for that. You can also use a sound editor like audacity. I used a spectrum analyzer app called just that by Raspberrywood. Here is an excellent youtube video that drew me to it. I did have to buy the $1 upgrade to unlock the features. I want to play with it some more, but it worked great and was repeatable in the results but there was a bit of a learning curve. It worked great on pedestal fans. I'll try it on some of my wood working machines tomorow because a lot of them are marked or known. Both white and black are installed with 4 blades, I never put on the 5th blade on the teak version. I grabbed a lot of the rpm's off the hansen site which listed the new ones at 213, and found the old one elsewhere. Both xlp's came in much higher than the hansen listed number but that looks like it might be speed 3 rather than 4. Any idea what rpm a 36 inch original should be turning on high? www.youtube.com/watch?v=xutm6oMTBw8
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Post by Noah C on Apr 26, 2020 8:53:26 GMT -5
Got a few questions for you here: 1. As for the RPM, how did you calculate it so accurately? You must have really sharp vision! 2. I know your sunroom original is installed with four blades but last I saw your new Original it was installed with five. Did you only use four blades while testing RPM? Manufacturers' RPM ratings are usually off by a little; they're a good estimation but you gotta test the fan in real life. For example the "197 RPM" old skeletal original is usually more like 175 or 180 RPM w/ all five blades. The new ones are generally around 190-200 RPM five blades. If both of your fans are 203 RPM, that's fast for an old skeletal original even with four blades, and right on for a new one. Hey Noah, good question. I was trying to come up with a reliable way to check the rpm. I have a video editor that allows me to slow down the speed and count but I didn't have the patience for that. You can also use a sound editor like audacity. I used a spectrum analyzer app called just that by Raspberrywood. Here is an excellent youtube video that drew me to it. I did have to buy the $1 upgrade to unlock the features. I want to play with it some more, but it worked great and was repeatable in the results but there was a bit of a learning curve. It worked great on pedestal fans. I'll try it on some of my wood working machines tomorow because a lot of them are marked or known. Both white and black are installed with 4 blades, I never put on the 5th blade on the teak version. I grabbed a lot of the rpm's off the hansen site which listed the new ones at 213, and found the old one elsewhere. Both xlp's came in much higher than the hansen listed number but that looks like it might be speed 3 rather than 4. Any idea what rpm a 36 inch original should be turning on high? www.youtube.com/watch?v=xutm6oMTBw8I get why a sound editor could work; those convert the frequency of the sound of each motor revolution into beats per minute (BPM). I'll have to look into those more to see how accurate they'll be given that some fans tend to spin very evenly if the blades and motor are better balanced. Seems to me like you just ended up with a fast pre-2015 skeletal Original and a post-2015 one that was exactly what it was supposed to be. RPM estimations for the Panama XLP's are based on high speed, but with longer blades (they were also sold as 58" fans). Medium-high with 52" fan diameter is the same speed as high with 58" diameter. 36" originals are usually between 270 and 300 RPMs on high speed; it varies based on the age/wear of the bearings, the condition of the windings, etc. How fast do your 36" originals run?
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 26, 2020 11:43:36 GMT -5
Hey Noah, good question. I was trying to come up with a reliable way to check the rpm. I have a video editor that allows me to slow down the speed and count but I didn't have the patience for that. You can also use a sound editor like audacity. I used a spectrum analyzer app called just that by Raspberrywood. Here is an excellent youtube video that drew me to it. I did have to buy the $1 upgrade to unlock the features. I want to play with it some more, but it worked great and was repeatable in the results but there was a bit of a learning curve. It worked great on pedestal fans. I'll try it on some of my wood working machines tomorow because a lot of them are marked or known. Both white and black are installed with 4 blades, I never put on the 5th blade on the teak version. I grabbed a lot of the rpm's off the hansen site which listed the new ones at 213, and found the old one elsewhere. Both xlp's came in much higher than the hansen listed number but that looks like it might be speed 3 rather than 4. Any idea what rpm a 36 inch original should be turning on high? www.youtube.com/watch?v=xutm6oMTBw8I get why a sound editor could work; those convert the frequency of the sound of each motor revolution into beats per minute (BPM). I'll have to look into those more to see how accurate they'll be given that some fans tend to spin very evenly if the blades and motor are better balanced. Seems to me like you just ended up with a fast pre-2015 skeletal Original and a post-2015 one that was exactly what it was supposed to be. RPM estimations for the Panama XLP's are based on high speed, but with longer blades (they were also sold as 58" fans). Medium-high with 52" fan diameter is the same speed as high with 58" diameter. 36" originals are usually between 270 and 300 RPMs on high speed; it varies based on the age/wear of the bearings, the condition of the windings, etc. How fast do your 36" originals run? I'm getting a wave for the 36 inch at 19.3 hz (19.3/4)*60 = 290. The other one is down as I'm repairing a cracked blade. I'm going to recheck the originals (rainy day today) using my vlc video editior against the spectrum analyzer. The spectrum has a live line and a max line, I may have seen the max line as being the same. Have to recheck it. I found a 2013 hunter catalog. They listed 11 original models at that time including indoor/outdoor and 42/52/55 inch configurations. It's pretty interesting because they already listed 2 originals at plus 7500 CFM in the outdoor (25602)/hotel models with 15 deg pitch and 52 inch blades and with 4 blades. I think they only sell the outdoor model now.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on May 30, 2020 15:16:23 GMT -5
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Post by Noah C on May 30, 2020 15:26:55 GMT -5
Great installs; you're starting to develop quite the collection of Originals. Now all you need are the '60s R52 model and the '70s Robbins & Myers models; you've got one from each generation. Love the garage Original installs. I wouldn't recommend putting your '80s Original in the pool room just because the blades will warp quickly, but I believe Lowe's home store outdoor plastic blades have the same hole spacing as the Original's blades do.
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Post by Parkman on May 30, 2020 15:30:51 GMT -5
I love the blades on the brass one. Looks great altogether!
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on May 30, 2020 21:06:26 GMT -5
It was the 5 minute fan that I took down that I would move out to the pool house. it's hot as hell in there. The pool is outside of that so I don't think there is anything but normal humidity. I wanted to see what all the hype was about the usa models. The usa models don't put out more air than the late chinese one. The CFM's claimed were not like comparison tests. I bought a laser tach. The chinese one runs the highest RPM, and they all should have the same pitch and span. The 1.1 and 2.0 both run mid 190's so if I had to pick one of those to hang and run a lot I'd use the 1.1 version but the teak chinese one runs about 5% faster than both and uses substantially less energy than the 2.0 in particular (that was using 183 watts on high) Time will tell about longevity the new motor style. I wouldn't pay $5-6 hundred for it, but the $135 in amazon warehouse was hard to pass and it's a really nice unit. I doubt a person could notice the difference in airflow between any of them. The most noticeable difference is both USA fans spin below 45 on low, and teak one does 60 and the pre 2015 was 85. Let me know if you want any other numbers related to RPM or Amperage. I have a 2.5 version but it's not hung because I don't have a bracket and really no spot for it. I hung it for a bit to test. It ran just over 190 rpm but used over 300 watts doing it. I found it on ebay for real cheap as it wasn't listed as an original or hunter. I'll probably get rid of it although I might be able to squeeze it into the garage somewhere.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on May 30, 2020 21:10:32 GMT -5
I love the blades on the brass one. Looks great altogether! I need a switch plate for it. That seems to be a difficult item to find. I'm still waiting for the light kit that was supposed to be with it. It is a nice one, I think it was 94. I have the extra blade.
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Post by Noah C on May 31, 2020 17:03:03 GMT -5
It was the 5 minute fan that I took down that I would move out to the pool house. it's hot as hell in there. The pool is outside of that so I don't think there is anything but normal humidity. I wanted to see what all the hype was about the usa models. The usa models don't put out more air than the late chinese one. The CFM's claimed were not like comparison tests. I bought a laser tach. The chinese one runs the highest RPM, and they all should have the same pitch and span. The 1.1 and 2.0 both run mid 190's so if I had to pick one of those to hang and run a lot I'd use the 1.1 version but the teak chinese one runs about 5% faster than both and uses substantially less energy than the 2.0 in particular (that was using 183 watts on high) Time will tell about longevity the new motor style. I wouldn't pay $5-6 hundred for it, but the $135 in amazon warehouse was hard to pass and it's a really nice unit. I doubt a person could notice the difference in airflow between any of them. The most noticeable difference is both USA fans spin below 45 on low, and teak one does 60 and the pre 2015 was 85. Let me know if you want any other numbers related to RPM or Amperage. I have a 2.5 version but it's not hung because I don't have a bracket and really no spot for it. I hung it for a bit to test. It ran just over 190 rpm but used over 300 watts doing it. I found it on ebay for real cheap as it wasn't listed as an original or hunter. I'll probably get rid of it although I might be able to squeeze it into the garage somewhere. Cool. My bad, I thought your pool area was enclosed from what you said earlier. What was the RPM for all of the Originals you've tested? Pitch is 15° for all of the Originals you have, and span varies by 1 inch; 4/5 blade Originals are 51" with 4 blades (52" with 5 blades though) because the 4 blade mount holes are closer to the interior of the motor hub. 4 blade only originals like your white '80s model are 52". Mid 190s for a 2 amp original installed with 4 blades is a little low; usually those are around 205-210 in that configuration. 183 watts is also high for a 2 amp original; those usually draw around 150 watts and 1.3 amps. I think the current motor style (skeletal with the 4" main bearing shaft/US style bearing) will last a long time. The Original won't become DC, and Hunter has reached a great balance between performance and efficiency with their current model. The low speed on 2 amp and earlier originals was fantastic. It's decent now but before 2015 the low speed was outrageously fast. Is your 2.5 amp Original one of the Robbins and Myers models? If so these use shaded pole motors which are less efficient than the permanent split capacitor motors Hunter switched to after 1982 I believe.
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Post by Cole D on May 31, 2020 18:03:34 GMT -5
Those look very nice! One thing I did think of though, on the polished brass one in the garage, you might want to have that in an area that is more controlled to temperature. Sometimes finishes like that tarnish in areas with temperature change or humidity. Not saying it would, but just something to be careful of.
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Post by Noah C on May 31, 2020 20:51:56 GMT -5
Those look very nice! One thing I did think of though, on the polished brass one in the garage, you might want to have that in an area that is more controlled to temperature. Sometimes finishes like that tarnish in areas with temperature change or humidity. Not saying it would, but just something to be careful of. Smart thinking. The brass original would make a great interior install but idk if he has space inside his house for it.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on May 31, 2020 21:23:46 GMT -5
The only room left without a fan is the dining room. My wife mentioned it yesterday after I hung the teak one. I use the living room as my office and she is using he dining room now and said she might like a fan but I'm not sure if the brass one would be too much in that space. If the light kit ever arrives I'll think about that though.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on May 31, 2020 21:37:10 GMT -5
These were all installed with 4 blades. I can't attest to the exact accuracy of the laser tach but the amperage/voltage readings are real and exact (for these units) as they were tested and confirmed on multiple flukes and one is certified calibrated. The other model is a 2.5 R&M with the blade irons that rotate. I'm just as much for USA made things as anybody but I don't think they were out-performing the current model in output and definitely not close in energy consumption.
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