dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 3, 2019 18:34:14 GMT -5
Hello, I found this forum after reading about fan quality, etc. I have 7 fans in my house and a many are junk. I wanted to upgrade many of them. I have a discount code from Hunter/Casablanca they offered me after they couldn't help with a part. I was looking at the 52 panama XLP as an option. I just need a couple standard fans with no lights for this open location with recessed lights. I'm just checking that the XLP 59125 is a quality motor. I think it is supposed to be a direct drive non spinner but one sight listed the motor dimensions as 172X12, which seemed rather small. However, in reading threads, I picked up that this is a similar style to the K55XL motor and just wanted to confirm that. I don't have huge air moving requirements, but I was mainly concerned that I am getting a really quality long-term motor. It looks like these are being replaced by DC models. thanks for any information!
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Post by Noah C on Apr 4, 2019 0:26:29 GMT -5
Hello, I found this forum after reading about fan quality, etc. I have 7 fans in my house and a many are junk. I wanted to upgrade many of them. I have a discount code from Hunter/Casablanca they offered me after they couldn't help with a part. I was looking at the 52 panama XLP as an option. I just need a couple standard fans with no lights for this open location with recessed lights. I'm just checking that the XLP 59125 is a quality motor. I think it is supposed to be a direct drive non spinner but one sight listed the motor dimensions as 172X12, which seemed rather small. However, in reading threads, I picked up that this is a similar style to the K55XL motor and just wanted to confirm that. I don't have huge air moving requirements, but I was mainly concerned that I am getting a really quality long-term motor. It looks like these are being replaced by DC models. thanks for any information! Hello dano, The XLP motor is indeed similar to Emerson's K55 or K55XL (newer and current version of the K55) in that both are considered "K55-type" or "stack" motors. This is because these motors are constructed with the rotor (portion of the motor that rotates) is inside of the motor's stator, or copper winding stack, unlike spinner motors with the rotor (outer shell of the motor) rotating around the stator/winding stack. Both the XLP and K55/K55XL are quality, reliable motors that will make for a powerful fan. The Casablanca Panama you are looking at indeed has the XLP motor in it; this is one of Casablanca's new-style Panamas (you'll probably see the older style version on here as they are quite common), and this XLP version is discounted because Casablanca discontinued this variant, not to be replaced by anything. On a side note: I don't know how much your Casablanca/Hunter discount code is worth, but I did find the fan you are considering buying on Amazon for a good bit cheaper than its price on Casablanca's website (which is $314). Link: www.amazon.com/Casablanca-59125-Ceiling-Control-Brushed/dp/B076FL1NGSGiven that this is remaining stock of this version of the Panama, if there are not enough fans in stock, may I also recommend this fan in the link here: www.amazon.com/dp/B004MXM4V4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_eazPCbFSF90YZThis is Fanimation's 52" Edgewood, which is the same price as the Panama XLP on Amazon. This fan has a large spinner motor (188×20mm) and will be just as powerful as the Panama (though air movement isn't too much of a priority); these are also great fans in terms of quality, and spinner motors of this size and caliber tend to be reliable as well. I hope this was helpful
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 4, 2019 8:19:58 GMT -5
Thanks Noah C! That was helpful. The code is worth 35%, and good for one time use on up to 10 items. That puts the xlp direct from them at $204 plus tax plus $10 shipping flat which is still much cheaper than amazon although the amazon listing is also appearing as coming direct from casablanca. I might buy 3 in this situation because they'd all be in the same sight line so thought it was worthy of asking. I'll then pull the decent fans I have there now out and move them up to the bedrooms which have really low end hamptons. I know this is a vintage forum but in reading have found there is appreciation of well made newer fans - hoping this is one. Hunter also had the Markham on clearance for $59 less the 35% but it was in black and wouldn't work but this fan jumped out as having a 172X20 motor and moved a lot of air for a 52 in the lower price range.
I think I stumbled on this forum while trying to find out information on an old hunter infiniti. I noticed my dad had pulled it down from his guest room and when I asked he said he was going to use it for parts to fix one of his new hampton bay fans. I kind of assumed the infiniti was a better fan and tried to find info on it. I told him I would take it rather than parting it out even if it just goes in my garage. I liked that fan a lot and slept with it for many years. Just yesterday, I stopped into the habitat restore and they had a white and brass infiniti, but ours is black with brown blades.
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Post by Noah C on Apr 4, 2019 15:02:26 GMT -5
Thanks Noah C! That was helpful. The code is worth 35%, and good for one time use on up to 10 items. That puts the xlp direct from them at $204 plus tax plus $10 shipping flat which is still much cheaper than amazon although the amazon listing is also appearing as coming direct from casablanca. I might buy 3 in this situation because they'd all be in the same sight line so thought it was worthy of asking. I'll then pull the decent fans I have there now out and move them up to the bedrooms which have really low end hamptons. I know this is a vintage forum but in reading have found there is appreciation of well made newer fans - hoping this is one. Hunter also had the Markham on clearance for $59 less the 35% but it was in black and wouldn't work but this fan jumped out as having a 172X20 motor and moved a lot of air for a 52 in the lower price range. I think I stumbled on this forum while trying to find out information on an old hunter infiniti. I noticed my dad had pulled it down from his guest room and when I asked he said he was going to use it for parts to fix one of his new hampton bay fans. I kind of assumed the infiniti was a better fan and tried to find info on it. I told him I would take it rather than parting it out even if it just goes in my garage. I liked that fan a lot and slept with it for many years. Just yesterday, I stopped into the habitat restore and they had a white and brass infiniti, but ours is black with brown blades. That's the way to go, then, as far as new fans go. The price for the last of the XLP Panamas is pretty great, though I wish they included better looking blades with these clearance models, lol. If I may, what fans do you have in your downstairs that you're moving upstairs? The current Hunter Markham has pretty solid performance since it has the same 172×20mm motor shared between Hunter and Casablanca. However, that fan is pretty cheap build quality wise, and you get MDF blades that'll probably sag some years later. Some people on here don't appreciate the newer Panamas nearly as much as the older ones, but some people here tend to have a more open mind for these kinds of things. The current day Panama, whether you get this XLP model or the direct drive (188×20mm) one, you'll be getting a great fan still quality wise. The direct drive version actually outperforms older and new Panama XLP's a little bit, but they don't have any good clearance deals for those like they do the XLP. The Hunter Infiniti is a 90's mid-range Hunter model that performs adequately but is moreso about the retro-contemporary aesthetic. I would keep the black one you have and unless you have a place for that brass one, I'd pass it up. Infinitis are about as good as any 90's spinner motor Hunter, which is good, but these new Casas are better buys. If you are buying three of these Casas all to go in the same general space, before you jump on this discount code, check your local habitats for older Panamas or Delta IIs, which are pretty common and will cost you less than the $600 ballpark for three fans.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 4, 2019 21:09:58 GMT -5
I actually like the casa panama white washed distressed oak/River timber blades or I wouldn't even be considering it. I checked my local habitat and the infiniti's were the only decent fans there. Plus I need to really find 3 fans that match, and vintage will be hard to do that at least without a long wait.
Although the 600 and change sounds like a lot, I don't know where else I can get 3 quality fans for that price. Even the fanamation link would tally up to 800 with tax
Downstairs, I have a hunter 59516 52 inch Five Minute Fan Oudoor White, which I put up about 5 years and has given me no issues and I like it. Last year in the attached open sunroom, I put in a Brookhurst, which appears to be hampton bay but has no markings saying that. It had a lot of good reviews. I moved that upstairs today to replace a noisy fan I removed. Still within the return window, I recently put up a hunter outdoor rated builder's elite, which looks ok, but after learning more about these fans, I guess is nothing special at all with a 172X12 motor and that is probably what is in the other hunter. these are all white as are the ones in the bedrooms.
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Post by Noah C on Apr 5, 2019 1:35:31 GMT -5
I actually like the casa panama white washed distressed oak/River timber blades or I wouldn't even be considering it. I checked my local habitat and the infiniti's were the only decent fans there. Plus I need to really find 3 fans that match, and vintage will be hard to do that at least without a long wait. Although the 600 and change sounds like a lot, I don't know where else I can get 3 quality fans for that price. Even the fanamation link would tally up to 800 with tax Downstairs, I have a hunter 59516 52 inch Five Minute Fan Oudoor White, which I put up about 5 years and has given me no issues and I like it. Last year in the attached open sunroom, I put in a Brookhurst, which appears to be hampton bay but has no markings saying that. It had a lot of good reviews. I moved that upstairs today to replace a noisy fan I removed. Still within the return window, I recently put up a hunter outdoor rated builder's elite, which looks ok, but after learning more about these fans, I guess is nothing special at all with a 172X12 motor and that is probably what is in the other hunter. these are all white as are the ones in the bedrooms. The deals on those Panamas are great. But it seems to me you're just genuinely looking for good quality fans. If this is true, then what I'd recommend is this (credit to Cole S for this photo, this isn't my photo): Attachment Deleted_ This is the Hunter Paramount XP fan, which I'd say is the best value for money right now for a quality traditional fan; this was Hunter's performance model through the 2000s aside from the Original, but these were discontinued in the early 2010s; however, Hunter is still sitting on a good bit of new-old stock of these, so you can still find one. These are selling for $150 on Amazon. Link: www.amazon.com/dp/B00149YZ3O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_3tXPCbSWW4MCEThese are definitely built well. No die-cast parts unlike the Panama, but the stamped steel used here is definitely heavy-gauge. The blades with this fan are plywood (pretty thick at that) but are not plywood with veneer finishes, these are plywood laminate, so the finish on the blades is simulated. Blades are good quality though. These have huge 188×25mm motors, very steep blade pitch (16°), and perform as well as any typical K55-type/stack motor fan. And the ultimate benefit is you save around $180-200 overall, as three of these come out to around $450 since these aren't flat taxed and shipping is free. On a side note, I honestly didn't remember there was still new-old stock for these until just now lol One thing I will also tell you: stay away from Hunters made after 2011 with the 172×12mm or 153mm motors, they are JUNK. The fans with the 172×20mm and 188×20mm motors shared by Hunter and Casablanca seem to have less problems. Also, I'd be wary of that Brookhurst; those are about as bad as those home store Hunters, you might have to replace that one soon. Also be wary of your Five-Minute fan, same deal. Keep those as long as they run, though.
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Post by Parkman on Apr 5, 2019 7:06:00 GMT -5
I agree with all that Noah has said.
If you're ok with a Manufacturer Refurbished fan, Frugalfair on ebay has some Casablanca's that will have the 188x20 motor Noah is recommending at a fraction of the cost. Sometimes they'll take $10 off if you buy two fans at a time and other times they'll have insane sale prices. I know I got a $269 Concentra from them for $67 with shipping. The fan was in perfect condition and original packaging just not the original box.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 5, 2019 8:04:50 GMT -5
Thanks guys! I'm going to look into that paramount a little more. I couldn't find an ebay seller under that ID using the advanced search. Noah, you nailed what I am looking for, traditional styling, but quality inside, even if I rarely utilize the capacity. I have an use my AC, but like to have the fans on a lot for circulation and I like the way they look running low. I just finished a 15 month renovation of the kitchen, family room, and sunroom making it all an attached open space. This will be a finishing touch and in the scope of the project, will only be a tiny cost percentage no matter what I pick. I don't want the fan to draw much immediate attention but when noticed I'd like it to look like a quality unit and run the same. Unfortunately, my ceilings are only 8'. Motor information is hard to find. I found only one site that has a comprehensive list but it is from 2016 but I cut and paste it into excel and use the filters. The paramount is not in this listing as it was discontinued and I don't even see a 188*25 motor in any model by that point. I have only found a 2016 hunter catalog in pdf form, but nothing newer. www.hansenwholesale.com/ceiling-fans/maxrpms
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 5, 2019 11:06:09 GMT -5
I called hunter today. I talked to a guy who was seemed pretty knowledgeable. Here is where I am getting confused.
He said the listed panama XLP uses a 172X12 motor and has no flywheel and is a traditional spinning style motor but the motor is unique to casablanca. Excuse my ignorance, but what is it that is special about the XLP motor as it has the same dimensions as the builder models that were largely condemned above? Also wondering if the model name was kept and the motor was changed at some point?
We discussed the paramount as well. He said it was sold mainly in latin American countries and had limited success in the united states. He said they did not have any remaining inventory. He said the build quality between the panama and paramount weren't really comparable but for obvious reasons wanted to steer me towards the panama and the warranty.
I like the look of the paramount a bit better than the panama for whatever reason in comparable finishes.
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Post by Noah C on Apr 5, 2019 15:47:09 GMT -5
I called hunter today. I talked to a guy who was seemed pretty knowledgeable. Here is where I am getting confused. He said the listed panama XLP uses a 172X12 motor and has no flywheel and is a traditional spinning style motor but the motor is unique to casablanca. Excuse my ignorance, but what is it that is special about the XLP motor as it has the same dimensions as the builder models that were largely condemned above? Also wondering if the model name was kept and the motor was changed at some point? We discussed the paramount as well. He said it was sold mainly in latin American countries and had limited success in the united states. He said they did not have any remaining inventory. He said the build quality between the panama and paramount weren't really comparable but for obvious reasons wanted to steer me towards the panama and the warranty. I like the look of the paramount a bit better than the panama for whatever reason in comparable finishes. Hunter's Paramount XP was the only fan in Hunter's lineup to have used a 188×25mm motor. You're not going to find much on these since they have been discontinued for quite some time. However, this website's listing for the fan actually does give the specs for it (this listing is far more expensive than the $150 listing on Amazon): m.lightingnewyork.com/product/product.cfm?pr_metaURL=hunter-fans-paramount-xp-indoor-ceiling-fans-23254The Hunter rep you talked to lacks basic knowledge of the products made by the companies he works for. For example, the Casablanca Panama XLP here wouldn't be called "XLP" if it didn't have an XLP motor, so he is providing you with misinformation. The XLP motor looks like this: Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedThe first picture is the XLP motor by itself, and the second is the XLP motor inside of the slightly older Casablanca Panama. There are actually three kinds of XLP motors, all with different winding stack heights; there are the XLP-2000 (28mm), the XLP-2100 (33mm), and the XLP-Plus (40mm). This XLP-2000 motor's full dimensions are 125×28mm (the XLP-2000 was the most common of the three XLP's and is what's in the Panama you are considering). This motor has a rubber flywheel due to its driveshaft-type or K55-type design (shown in last photo). The flywheel shown on this older Panama has the ability to mount 4 or 5 blades, there are holes spaced for both. The only change made between this older Panama and the one you are looking at, in regards to the motor, is that the flywheel on the newer model is only drilled for 5 blades. Motor is identical though. This sales rep doesn't know what he's talking about, other than to sell a product. What a shame people like this can maintain jobs such as these. To continue, even if Hunter itself may not have any remaining inventory of the Paramount XP, plenty of showrooms and retailers still do; even Amazon has a good stock of these (link in my previous post). It is likely that Hunter may have cleared out their warehouse(s) by selling the rest of their inventory to said retailers to clear out. As far as construction goes, both are high quality fans, but the Panama you're looking at uses the same die-cast zinc motor housing as the older Panama did (shown in last photo) and die-cast blade irons, with some heavy-gauge stamped parts and, in this case with the clearance model, composite blades. The Paramount uses heavy-gauge stamped parts all-round, die-cast blade irons (with really thick castings to prevent warpage), and plywood blades. Both fans are quality, and you will be getting a high-end product whichever way you go. In this scenario, I'd edge towards the Paramount just to save that extra $200 or so, even with these fans being a relatively small percentage of the renovation budget. Just to add to an already-long post (lol ), Hunter/Casablanca's current 188×20mm motor, which is in the current Panama, is as good a motor as the 188×25mm beast in the Paramount. Only problem is that all the listings I have seen for Panamas right now (the non-XLP standard version) would have you spending more than you would for the XLP Panama or the Paramount.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 5, 2019 21:53:33 GMT -5
Thanks Noah, a lot of great info on both fans. I like the paramount looks and the savings but one thing that pushes me towards the panama, is that the specs I see show the bottom of the blades sitting almost 2 inches closer to the ceiling than the paramount (which has a 3" downrod only), but the panama also includes of a 2" downrod which would make it almost 3 inches higher installed. I mentioned 8 foot ceilings, and the paramount blades are lower than 7 feet and that gets feeling kind of close. The rep said they still have a couple hundred XLP's, so I might get one before committing to 3. I'll assume I can get another code because they offer it out readily.
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Post by Noah C on Apr 5, 2019 23:12:49 GMT -5
Thanks Noah, a lot of great info on both fans. I like the paramount looks and the savings but one thing that pushes me towards the panama, is that the specs I see show the bottom of the blades sitting almost 2 inches closer to the ceiling than the paramount (which has a 3" downrod only), but the panama also includes of a 2" downrod which would make it almost 3 inches higher installed. I mentioned 8 foot ceilings, and the paramount blades are lower than 7 feet and that gets feeling kind of close. The rep said they still have a couple hundred XLP's, so I might get one before committing to 3. I'll assume I can get another code because they offer it out readily. I see what you are saying. My upstairs has 8' ceilings and when I replaced the fan in my bedroom two years ago, I had to be really picky about what went there to not have too much drop. I bought a 52" Minka Aire Supra fan (which actually would fit your criteria quite well, also quality fans for a great price) which includes a 3.5" and a 6" downrod, and with the 3.5" I have about 11" of drop from the ceiling to the blades (bottom edge). What I will say from a bit of experience is when you've got a fan on an 8' ceiling, you want the drop between ceiling and blades around right at 12"; that puts the blades around 7' from the floor so it's not too hazardous for tall people, and (this is key) you have enough drop from the ceiling for the fan to move air; when your fan blades only have 7-10" of drop from the ceiling (or less), you feel way less air from the fan since there's less space for air to move, and if you live anywhere that gets hot (I'm in SoCal) then even if air movement isn't the biggest priority, you'll want to feel something ... If you go the Panama route, I'd install with the 3" downrod since the Panama has about the same profile as my Supra (now installed in my guest bedroom), with about an 11" drop. If you go the Paramount route, then there isn't much you can do unless you buy three 2" downrods through Hunter, which is kinda tedious. I honestly wouldn't worry too much about the 13" drop, since as I hinted at, the drop I'm talking about is measured from ceiling to the bottom edge of the blades, so the rest of the blade is gonna be higher up since blades are pitched. That could be a result of the Paramount's steep pitch at 16°, vs 13° for the Panama. Or that stupid hump on top of the motor housing 2000s Hunters had. At this point, what I'll say is either option between the Paramount and the Panama XLP is great, and whichever way you go, I would buy one and test it before committing to three, now that you mention it. Before you commit to anything though, I'd suggest checking out the aforementioned Minka Aire Supra; you may be surprised at what you can get for $120. But that's more soft contemporary/transitional than the more traditional options we've been looking at. Also, if you could send some pictures our way of the completed project when it becomes something special, that'd be fantastic we like looking at neat installs on here
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 6, 2019 8:10:38 GMT -5
Here's a couple shots of the space. Forgive the mess and family using it. Regarding heights, I bought a NIB hunter original on ebay. I have it hanging in the back sunroom now but I feel it hangs to low. It's drop to blade is almost 13", but my other 2 are just under 10". The sunroom ceiling are a couple inches lower than the rest of the house (7'9.5") which aggravates the issue but the fan feels really over-bearing there. Forgetting the New/Old hunter thing, it is a beautiful fan but in person I don't like it as much as I thought I would and am going to move it elsewhere and it may end up in the garage because I'm not sure where I can put it. I also don't like how the canopy attaches only to the pole rather than to the brace/bracket. When the fan moves it bumps off the ceiling and there is a gap.
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dano
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by dano on Apr 6, 2019 8:19:59 GMT -5
I'll just assume you guys like pictures. Here is a closer shot of the original. I'll try a direct link and the builder elite
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Post by Noah C on Apr 6, 2019 8:31:52 GMT -5
I'll just assume you guys like pictures. Here is a closer shot of the original. I'll try a direct link Hm, I see. So two of your fans are on the normal 8' ceiling and one may be on that 7'9.5" ceiling. Yeah, that's a pickle. Since everything has to be coordinated, you can't really do a Paramount install throughout because the shortest maximum drop you'll get with a Paramount is 12" with a 2" downrod from Hunter; that puts you at blades 6'9.5" from the floor...a little low. The original is really nice-looking in that space but for such a low ceiling in your sunroom, you'd need something with about 10-11" drop MAX. I'd either stick to the Panamas you've already been considering, or I would check out the Minka Aire Supra fan (which doesn't hang as low as the Paramount) if you want high-quality and well performing fans for around $120 each, even if you don't mind the soft contemporary aesthetic. I'll link that fan here: www.amazon.com/dp/B007PF6OUI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_IQkQCbMXBE6T2
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