Garage Saga

[Deleted]

Here's a recent story . . .

Recently, I had to put some of my larger musical equipment (a B3 organ and some speakers) into storage. I asked my dad if we could store it in his garage, and that was ok, but since the equipment is very valuable and the garage is very junky, the garage would need to be cleaned first. So we cleaned the garage, and, surprisingly, it only took an afternoon to do a fairly good job of it.

However, we uncovered a problem: the garage ceiling consisted of several large panels of what appeared to be a cross between fiberglass sheets and drywall, nailed between a few randomly placed joists. These panels were at least 30 years old, and in all the recent humidity and bad weather they were rotting and falling down. So of course I had a larger project: repair the ceiling.

Now the only light in the garage was a porcelin socket on the wall over the door to the house, concealed by some shelves. There was also a ceiling fan hanging over the instruments I had put some time previously: it was not permanently installed, hanging on a bicycle hook and wired to an extension cord. Currently it was a Codep (look in the Dan's Collection Gallery, which shows all the fans installed in my house and my parent's) and prior to that it had been a blender fan (also in the Dan's Collection Gallery). I'm trying to remember what it had been prior to that. At one point it was a small Evergo industrial, and that came down in favor or a Carroway spinner. This was also the location in which I realized that the Design House that replaced the Tara at the lumberyard was a better quality fan that it looked. In any case, the garage ceiling had nothing electrical installed other than the garage door opener.

I commented to my dad "Would you like some more light in here? When I'm fixing the ceiling I could do some permanent wiring." I didnt think he'd care but he actually came out in favor of the idea.

Now I had a great idea: I had two industrial fans I'd bought earlier this year. These happened to be one of my favorite industrial fans, but I had never installed them or used them since the paint was a little chipped and the blades were a little bent. Perfect garage fans. You can see a picture of a similar fan, they're Dayton's old model, in the Dayton Industrial gallery of the Group, the picture's called "daytonplain".

So I made plans for the project. There would be two large fluorescent lights, offset, one in the front and one in the back. Two fans, one in front and one in back, opposite the lights. Two smaller fluorescent lights in the dark corners. One switch for all the lights, one variable speed control for the fans, tapped straight out of the breaker box. 14-3 Romax cable, metal boxes, all on the surface so that the ceiling panels would be held up (in part) by the fixtures.

So I go to Menards, spend $100 (it would have been much more at Home Depot, I compared prices, and I got a nice cordless screwdriver on clearance) and started. All the wiring in place, boxes for the fans. One of the ballasts in the fixtures was bad, and I needed some braces for the ceiling panels, so back to Menards. I'm looking through the 'trim' section and I get a call on my cellphone "I hear there's a really bad storm coming, you should get home." I blow it off, even though there appears to be a buzz throughout the store about it as well. I'm at the checkout, arguing over the cost of lumber, and we see a funnel cloud swoop down into the parking lot, pick up a swingset, throw it in the highway, pick up a shed, throw it in the Taco Bell drivethrough. The trees are bent sideways. And I left my car windows open! When I get back the power was off and will be off for a day, what with all the damge-- many lines are down, most of the roads are blocked by fallen trees, etc.

Anyhow eventually I do manage to finish the project, saving the fans for last. I pull out my two precious Daytons only to find the motors to be completey locked up! This is odd, I could have sworn the bearings were fine last I'd checked, and I had oiled them. I oil them again, clean them out, etc. . . still locked. Locked up so tight they cannot be moved. I'm going to try and pull them apart (the motors are not designed to be opened they're pressed steel) and work with the bearings a bit, but already I've resigned that these fans may be for the junk heep. So, seeing as I've always loved these fans, I'm now looking to try and find some more.

Meanwhile, the garage still isnt finished until I put up fans. After going through my stash of industrials I chose one Envirofan (early 80s Gold Line) and one 56" Dayton Lasko. These are both fans I love, but there are problems:

1. Too big. The Envirofan is an immense presence that seems to fill the entire garage. I dont want the fans to be the focal point, it's a garage, not a fan room.

2. The Dayton Lasko does not work well with a variable speed control. I never knew this, I'd never tried one with a variable speed control before, but it buzzes terribly.

So, I may try some Plastic Emersons . . . I dont want wood bladed fans for fear of warping or breakage. I dont have too many industrials I love enough to permanently install them . . . I'm going to try the Emersons, see how I like them, I'm really hoping I can fix the Daytons or find some more. Some K63 blenderfans might also be nice, but I only have one. Or those Nutone industrials I've always wanted, both the bwon cane bladed ones and the more conventional white metal (four bladed) one.

Any comments on my story?

[Deleted]

I posted pictures of the two industrials I did put up in the Dan's Collection Gallery.

[Matthew]

Busy week you got there sir. And thanks for Shopping at Menards. Now that im done with High school and starting college, me and some friends are renting a garage space south of town. Its a medium sized garage with a large bit of land and a burn pile. I installed those Cropton Greave industrials in the garage and the Decorative model in the only room. They will get left behind but I dont care. I got the two industials hooked up to a 3-speed wall control and the one inside as well. Pretty quiet acutally. Industrial fans belong in the garage and they work pretty darn good out there.

[Deleted]

You know I love Menards. I spent more time there this week than sleeping and didnt mind it a bit. I was forced to go to Home Depot at one point during the project (had to do a return) and I compared prices for most of the items I was buying at Menards. Many were twice the price! Standard items like Romex cable (they sold the same brand, $12 a HD, $8 at Menards, 50') outlet boxes, 2x4s . . . God forbid I would have bought the cordless drill at Home Depot.

The only reason to chose Home Depot: because Menards has the lowest prices, some of their items are . . . well here's an example. When the ballast went out on one of my fluorescent lights, I looked into replacement ballasts and they were close to $20. So I noticed Menards had a shoplight for $6. I figured I'd buy it and use the ballast from it. I get it home, it's all plastic construction and is so cheap it doesnt even have a ballast?! So I have to get the next model up which is $13 or so. I later looked at Home Depot, and they had a metal shoplight (presumably with a ballast) for $8. So some of there stuff is better quality for the higher price . . . but most of it is the same.


Congradulations on renting the Garage, it sounds really cool and a lot of fun. Are you going to start a business there fixing cars or is it jsut for personal use?

[Deleted]

I should add the item I returned at Home Depot got me $60 in store credit. I'm using it all on WD40

[Matthew]

Dan said:

I should add the item I returned at Home Depot got me $60 in store credit. I'm using it all on WD40

Yeah, what will that get you, umm three cans???

[Matthew]

Dan said:

Congradulations on renting the Garage, it sounds really cool and a lot of fun. Are you going to start a business there fixing cars or is it jsut for personal use?

Right now its for personal use, but I do repair cars of friends, neighbors,....etc. My friends dad is the land lord so he is giving us a great deal on rent and lets us use the burn pile. I made a joke about me and my GF living in the only room in the building, now I think I should . Nawwwww we'll get a bigger place hehehehe

[Deleted]

Matthew said:

Yeah, what will that get you, umm three cans???

It's around $2 at both Menards and Home Depot, but at Menards you get a can 3oz larger.

[Andrew G.]

Dan said:

2. The Dayton Lasko does not work well with a variable speed control. I never knew this, I'd never tried one with a variable speed control before, but it buzzes terribly.

Yes, those fans do buzz terribly with a variable speed control. I also have one of those fans, I recently hung it with a 6'' threaded pipe which I hot holes drilled in and an evergo hook and grommit, they are quite versitile. I hang my favorite fans in my closed porch. There used to be a 36'' friction drive in there. The variable speed control for those fans can be mounted inside the switch housing or on the wall. The previous owners mounted it on the wall and I can't find the right fuse to shut off the power to it so I use my fans on it. I now have an antique brass tatung in there and it is also terribly noisy.

[John "Rockin" Reed]

This past weekend, I hung 2 fans in my garage...One of which was that old ornate Wing Tat/Ritz fan I acquired from that house donated to my church, along with an old white w/ brass accents 42" Palm-Air spinner fan that used to be in my brother's room. They run great although the ornate fan does make some noise, and is best used at low speed. The Palm-Air I can run on high, however. Anyways, I'll put more fans up there as I collect them, and I took pics of those fans too .

[Deleted]

Well you know I'm not one to be kept down by any fans. No locked up Daytons can get the best of me!

The problem was, I had no way to get the motor casing open. It was held together by three screws on the top of the housing, and with these three screws removed, nothing. Normally to open an industrial motor when removing screws alone wont do it is to pry the case apart at the seam, which is often right above, below, or covered by a gold/silver/black stripe sticker on the side of the motor. These motors did not have such a sticker, they did indeed have a silver stripe but the stripe was not so insubstantial, it was molded out of some kind of hard plastic and fitted so that the motor had no visable seam.

Rather than experiment and destroy something, I took the motors to the few local motor shops around, hoping someone would have a special tool to open them up. I learned that the only motor shops that arent "counter jockeys" (let me run in back and get that part for you) were the few that did the great big, farm, industrial motors and had no idea about small motors. The helpful guy I found, an old industry veteran at such a shop, was quite facinated by the Dayton motors, but had no idea how to get them apart.

So, experimentation time. I took my dremel tool and cut through the silver ring, and snapped it off it's fitted ridge on the casing. Voila, I now had access to the seam to divide the housing.

The housing came out easily and I found the bearings full of rust and all the empty space in the casing full of a material that looked like cottage cheese. I cleaned 'em up, repainted while I had it open, varnished the windings (they were made with no varnish on originally) and put 'em back together.

One of the two motors ran perfectly. Well, bearing noise, after all I'd cleaned, degreased, and re-greased the bearings, but you cant undo all the effects of years of rust. The other motor ran stiffer, as though the bearings werent completely aligned. I assumed this to be something that would correct itself with operation.

The blades . . . I bought these with the understanding that the blades were somewhat bent, some worse than others. When the fans arrived it appeared I had one good set and one bad set, but when it came time to assemble the fans it was learned that both sets were bent beyond the ability to be used as is. These being sculped blades, I assumed the only way to correct this issue was with special tools. After many attempts to correct the blades by rolling the edges by hand, pressing them between clamps with braces, etc, I found that it was in fact much easier to repair them while they were on the fans.

As a result one blade set was corrected to being perfectly balanced and appear more-or-less new, the other still has some visible creases, one of the rivets is flattened, and while they appear to be perfectly aligned with one another, still a bit off balance.

Assembling the fans discovered another issue: the motor that had originally ran stiffer than the other in fact ran perfect on high speeds, but on lower speeds stalled and would not start. It no longer felt stiff to turn, but did have a few notches in the rotation that werent smooth. So I decided to replace the bearings.

The top bearings were easy to remove, just knock them out of the casing. The bottom bearings, however, you only have access from one side so you canno knock them out. There is not a bearing puller made small enough to remove them. They are pressed in to the casing. After conferring with my friend at the farm motor shop (see above), who informed me that they could possibly be removed but not without risking destroying the casting, I decided to leave in the bottom bearings and replace only the top.

This resulted in the elimination of the bearing noise from both fans, however, no change in the low-speed operation of the one. I checked capacitors, not a problem. The coils themselves measured fine, exactly the same impedance on both fans. I eventually resigned that perhaps the one fan would correct itself over time, as the new oil worked it's way in the bottom bearing, or perhaps it was just meant to run slower on lower speeds. I set my low-speed setting on the wall control at a speed at which both fans would run, and considered the project done.

Both fans were running at a medium speed when I left last night. I come in this morning to find them turned to low and the slow-running fan not moving at all, just buzzing. I turn them to high and the slow fan barely gets any speed. After checking the bearings (fine) and capacitor (fine) I now have to start all over again.

And the saga continues . . .

Meanwhile I have a 36" Emerson Casablanca Designer Series up there, it was the most easily assessable fan I had that

1. Was white
2. Would operate on a variable speed control
3. Did not hang down lower than 12" or so
4. Did not have wood blades

I would have preferred a 48-56" fan, and/or industrial, but even the Blenderfans I had hung down too low . . . hopefully this is only temporary, as I repair the other Dayton or find a replacement.

Pictures of both the Daytons and the Emerson are in the Dan's Collection Gallery in the Yahoo Group.

[Andrew G.]

Alright, you obviously need help. When I had to take my motors apart I first removed the screws, then I took a hammer to the side of the casing and got it loose and from there, I removed the top of the casing with screwdrivers (in other words, you DID NOT have to remove the plastic ring to access the motor at all). The motor shafts on my fans slid right out of the bottom bearing with ease. I took a grease gun to the bottom bearings and pressed the grease into the hole with my finger. Dan, if you use enough grease in them the bearings should run fine.

My fans were totally waterlogged so I had to dry out the windings and the inside of the casing. My dayton/lasko was also waterlogged but I used a hair dryer for that because the housing is open on those fans. The insides of the casings on my motors were wet and rusty. I cleaned them up and they were just fine after that. On three out of four of my fans the windings were fine but damp so I sprayed some 2-26 on them. The other one needs more work. The rotor came out of the casings rather easily so I could check for moisture and rust.

I put my motors back together by simply hammering the top of the casing back onto the main casing. So far I've gotten two out of four of my fans running perfectly.

[Deleted]

Andrew said:

Alright, you obviously need help.

And you obviously didnt read what I wrote too carefully, nor realize that the motor casing construction is different on the model I have than yours.

Andrew said:

When I had to take my motors apart I first removed the screws, then I took a hammer to the side of the casing and got it loose and from there, I removed the top of the casing with screwdrivers (in other words, you DID NOT have to remove the plastic ring to access the motor at all).

These, especially with everything being rusted together the way it was, you did. The only other option would be to clamp the bottom half of the casing down in a desk vise and work the top half off with leverage . . . but this would have marred up the finish in the side of the fans. Better to create a break in the ring than claw up the casting.

Andrew said:

The motor shafts on my fans slid right out of the bottom bearing with ease. I took a grease gun to the bottom bearings and pressed the grease into the hole with my finger. Dan, if you use enough grease in them the bearings should run fine.

Nope, really I should replace both bearings in both fans . . . but seeing as the bottom ones are difficult if not impossible to replace, I had to settle for just the top bearings. In one fan this provided ideal operation.

Andrew said:

My fans were totally waterlogged so I had to dry out the windings and the inside of the casing. My dayton/lasko was also waterlogged but I used a hair dryer for that because the housing is open on those fans. The insides of the casings on my motors were wet and rusty. I cleaned them up and they were just fine after that. On three out of four of my fans the windings were fine but damp so I sprayed some 2-26 on them. The other one needs more work. The rotor came out of the casings rather easily so I could check for moisture and rust.

I put my motors back together by simply hammering the top of the casing back onto the main casing. So far I've gotten two out of four of my fans running perfectly.

lol @ 'hair dryer'. Get some red class 17 varnish and spray those windings before you put them back together. In fact, this is a good idea to do to any motor when you have it apart. Even if it's been varnished before, it can get dry and flaky, that's why many motors buzz.

Your other fan, that 'needs more work' are the windings ok or shorted/open? Any idea on impedance?

[Deleted]

Andrew said:

Also, can you go back and edit your post, so my entire very long message is not quoted in yours?