China "Original" fan medium speed not working-advice?

[desertbreeze]

Note:  This is a repost from the portable fan forum where I placed it yesterday.  Rookie Mistake!



Hello. I'm new to the forum and I have two partially working Hunter "Original" fans that I could use some advice on repairing.



I'm a big fan of Hunter Fans for over 30 years currently owning several Original Fans from mid 80's American made Originals as well as a 2002 Taiwan "Original", and the two made in China "Originals". Incidentally, the Taiwan and American Made fans work just fine.



The two partially working fans are model 23855A, manufactured in China with a cast iron housing, oil lubrication system, 1 amp motor, 3 speed pull chain and a reversing switch in the light switch housing. I have two of these fans in my Arizona home and they get a lot of use with long, hot summers. I believe the fans are somewhere between 5 and 10 years old and both now have non-operating medium speeds. The high and low speeds seem to work ok. The first fan (in our master bedroom) lost medium speed about a year ago so I swapped it with our family run fan thinking I would "fix it later" , realizing that the capacitors are mounted on top of the motor housing, and I didn't have the stomach to take on a full fan disassembly at the time. Fast forward another year or so and the swapped out fan in our Master Bed room also quit working on medium speed. I'm now ready to fix both partially operating fans!



I tested the 3 speed pull switch by measuring AC voltage levels for all three positions and it seems to be working fine for both forward and reverse switch positions. For reference, these are the current fan rotation speeds measured with a optical rpm gauge.



Hi-190

rpm

Med-50

rpm

Low-80 rpm



As you can tell medium is actually slower than Low....



Checking this forum and other DIY sites, I believe the capacitors are usually suspect in a failure scenario like I'm dealing with. Visually, both capacitors (a 3-wire 4.5/7.5 micro Fared cap and a 2-wire 4.5 micro Fared cap) look good with no bulging or evidence of failure. I've done a number of searches for a wiring schematic but have not had any luck locating one specific to this model. Ideally, I would use the schematic to confirm the fans's main stator windings are still good before I replace the capacitors. I do have the ability to check the capacitors on my DVM but I believe I would need to remove them from the fan before doing so and I wasn't quite ready to do that yet.



Anyone know where I can locate a wiring schematic for this fan? Any any additional troubleshooting suggestions you might have would also be greatly appreciated!



Trying to stay cool,



Mark

Attachments:

[desertbreeze]

Update on the troubleshooting.

I removed the capacitors and tested them on my DVM and they both are very close to the specified values.

I unwired the 3 speed fan switch and tested it for continuity and insulation resistance and it seems to be just fine.

I am now baffled as to what the problem could be.   I'm still on the hunt for a wiring schematic if anyone knows where I could locate one.   


Any suggestions or ideas would be appreciated!

Mark

[Obi-Wan Canopy]

1. These fans originally operated correctly, and the medium speeds failed, but low and high work correctly?

2. Capacitors can fail but still test good on a meter.

[desertbreeze]

Obi-Wan


Correct.  Both fans operated properly on all speeds for 5-7 years.   Medium speed is not working on either fan now.  They failed about a year apart.   I used a Digital Volt Meter that has a capacitor test function and verified their values.     As I said, visually they look fine.    If I could get my hands on a wiring schematic,  I believe I could troubleshoot the exact failure mode and components involved.   Is there a set of electrical schematics that exist somewhere for these fans?  I wouldn't think it needs to be exact for this model but something similar.  

Thanks,  

Mark

[Obi-Wan Canopy]

I know very little about imported "A" model Originals, I dont have one to reference or a schematic. If they have multiple capacitor values, then the speeds are derived from capacitors, so if one doesnt work, the issue is either the capacitor or the wiring. If the wiring hasnt changed, it seems like a capacitor failure.

[Jonathan A.]

If medium is slower than low on Chinese/Taiwan Original, then it's a pull chain issue. Pull chain uses L-1, L-2-3, L-3, but somehow it became L-1, L-2, L-3. Bad capacitor on Taiwan/Chinese Original would not cause medium to be any slower than low, since medium speed uses low speed capacitor plus another capacitor, and there is no way adding another capacitor in parallel with existing speed (not start/run) capacitor would make it any slower. Link to new pull chain switch:
www.amazon.com/Dayone-Ceiling-Replacement-Accessories-（ZE-268S6）/dp/B07D9ZQG25

[desertbreeze]

Jonathan.  You have opened up my eyes!    When this problem first raised it's head two years ago, I thought it might be a switch problem so I went to my local big box store (orange version) and purchased a 3 speed ceiling fan switch (zing ear 208S) which is a L-1, L-2, L-3 switch!    When the problem was not fixed, I incorrectly concluded that it was not the switch since the switch (albeit the wrong switch) did not fix the problem.    I should have looked more closely at the switch part number/looked up it's internal wiring schematic.   

Fast forward 2 years.  When this problem occurred on the 2nd Chinese "original" fan, I incorrectly assumed it was not the switch and falsely suspected a more serious problem, like capacitors or a winding problem.   

I went so far as to create a wiring schematic for this model fan as I could easily locate one nor were the technical support people very helpful at Hunter.    It looks like the limit of their support is to check if the fan is under warranty, confirm that you have an original purchase receipt  and have you  box it up and send it in.   

Thank goodness for technical forums like this one where fan owners actually share their knowledge and insight!

I believe the attached schematic is accurate and was helpful in the trouble shooting process.  Perhaps it will be helpful to someone else.  I'll report back after getting the correct switch installed. 

Mark 

Attachments:

[Jonathan A.]

Yeah low should be 7.5uf and medium should be 4.5+7.5=12uf. With L-1, L-2, L-3, the medium position would use 4.5uf which explains why medium is slower than low, cause "2" connects to 4.5 and "3" connects to 7.5.

[Jonathan A.]

Another note: 3 speed American Original pull chain would go L-1, L-2, L-3, only post-2002 ones go L-1, L-2-3, L-3.

[jimsavhga]

Jul 30, 2020 21:06:23 GMT -5 desertbreeze said:

Jonathan.  You have opened up my eyes!    When this problem first raised it's head two years ago, I thought it might be a switch problem so I went to my local big box store (orange version) and purchased a 3 speed ceiling fan switch (zing ear 208S) which is a L-1, L-2, L-3 switch!    When the problem was not fixed, I incorrectly concluded that it was not the switch since the switch (albeit the wrong switch) did not fix the problem.    I should have looked more closely at the switch part number/looked up it's internal wiring schematic.   

Fast forward 2 years.  When this problem occurred on the 2nd Chinese "original" fan, I incorrectly assumed it was not the switch and falsely suspected a more serious problem, like capacitors or a winding problem.   

I went so far as to create a wiring schematic for this model fan as I could easily locate one nor were the technical support people very helpful at Hunter.    It looks like the limit of their support is to check if the fan is under warranty, confirm that you have an original purchase receipt  and have you  box it up and send it in.   

Thank goodness for technical forums like this one where fan owners actually share their knowledge and insight!

I believe the attached schematic is accurate and was helpful in the trouble shooting process.  Perhaps it will be helpful to someone else.  I'll report back after getting the correct switch installed. 

Mark 



Mark,
Thank you for posting the schematic. The grey wire on my 23855A (2003, 48th week) popped loose before I could document its connection location. The only other difference in my wiring from yours is on the reverse switch, the pinks are wired together and the yellows are wired together. Everything else is the same.
Thanks again,
Jim