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Post by Cole S. on Apr 15, 2015 0:15:00 GMT -5
Hunter sent me an exclusive offer for a new SIMPLEconnect Bluetooth control system before it releases to the general market in, what I gather to be, a few weeks. It was a really cool opportunity. While it's not an official review or product placement or anything of the sort, the girl I'm in contact with said that since I'm so huge in ceiling fans, they value my opinion and wanted to make this possible. I made a video with it installed that will go up tomorrow. It's a neat thing to play around with. There's been a lot of talk over comparison with Fanimation's fanSync, I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. This one at least requires a PIN to gain access to control upon setup, but I like how fanSync has full wall/remote controls available to use without the app, where the remote on this one is just on/off and you have to use the pull chains for fan control without the app. I can't say anything detrimentally bad about this one, it works great and I like the app itself very much. Added optional controls would be an improvement, just constructive criticism. If possible, more fan speed selection would be great too but the three speeds on here are fine as is.
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Post by veteater on Apr 15, 2015 1:52:45 GMT -5
They don't make one for use with their remote controlled models.
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Post by Cole S. on Apr 15, 2015 10:59:28 GMT -5
In due time I'm sure there will be all sorts of amazing products, this one is a good first attempt for Hunter in my opinion. Big Ass Fans of course has SenseME, I don't include that technology within this category since it's so far advanced and is integrated with their fans. But I think that kind of stuff is where everything will head in the future.
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Post by Jordan U on Apr 15, 2015 22:13:49 GMT -5
That's pretty neat that they sent you a product before it was released to the public, its like you're a sponsored fan collector lol.
I'm not big on electronic controls, and while the concept behind this control is cool and all, its probably not something I'd ever use. My favorite controls are still old-fashioned, reliable, mechanical pull chains. I suppose since I work in computer repair I'm a little biased, but there's some things I just want to work every time and not have to worry about getting electronics to cooperate in order to do something simple like run a ceiling fan.
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Post by Cole S. on Apr 16, 2015 0:00:43 GMT -5
It was super nice. I've really been enjoying collaborating my efforts with the people at Hunter/Casablanca, it's such an amazing experience just to be in contact with anybody in a fan company.
I'm kinda with you there when it comes to standard operation. While I can't discredit the product itself, because it is good, some of this stuff is still a little gimmicky. I had a lot of fun playing around with this, and I think the scheduling features are awesome, but when it comes to getting the light or fan on upon walking into a room it's a bit cumbersome to get to the app or locate the little accessory remote quickly when normally you just flip a switch or press one convenient button. I think that when they've advanced things (and I'm sure they will) to where the fan and light turn on in proximity when you enter a room and such, then they'll really have something going. As I've been saying, this is a first attempt very well done in my opinion.
Having experienced far too many electronics issues with fans, I am also a bit wary of so much electronic integration. Of course everything is heading that direction so what can you do lol. While not always totally convenient to use, I will say that this SIMPLEconnect responds and is ready to go every single time, I played around with response a lot, since I have experience with a number of control systems that weren't always so responsive on the first try. The communication on this system is top notch.
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Post by Vintage Fan Collector on Apr 18, 2015 10:31:58 GMT -5
This is a cool concept, and I want one when they come out. I am guessing these don't work for Hang-Tru?
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Post by Jordan U on Apr 18, 2015 21:04:37 GMT -5
It was super nice. I've really been enjoying collaborating my efforts with the people at Hunter/Casablanca, it's such an amazing experience just to be in contact with anybody in a fan company. I'm kinda with you there when it comes to standard operation. While I can't discredit the product itself, because it is good, some of this stuff is still a little gimmicky. I had a lot of fun playing around with this, and I think the scheduling features are awesome, but when it comes to getting the light or fan on upon walking into a room it's a bit cumbersome to get to the app or locate the little accessory remote quickly when normally you just flip a switch or press one convenient button. I think that when they've advanced things (and I'm sure they will) to where the fan and light turn on in proximity when you enter a room and such, then they'll really have something going. As I've been saying, this is a first attempt very well done in my opinion. Having experienced far too many electronics issues with fans, I am also a bit wary of so much electronic integration. Of course everything is heading that direction so what can you do lol. While not always totally convenient to use, I will say that this SIMPLEconnect responds and is ready to go every single time, I played around with response a lot, since I have experience with a number of control systems that weren't always so responsive on the first try. The communication on this system is top notch. What's the range like? I know BlueTooth generally is more of a close-range radio.. I'd think the concept of the light turning on when you get near to the fan would be pretty simple in this age of electronics, I wouldn't be surprised if we see if very soon. I'm sure its out there somewhere if you looked far enough.
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Post by Max C. on Apr 19, 2015 11:41:52 GMT -5
I was just going to post a thread about this control, however you beat me to it It's awesome that Hunter is actually putting in some effort for once. Albeit a bit tacky in some respects, it does seem high quality and that's definitely nice to see. If they do indeed value your opinion, would you mind telling HunterBlanca the following: - Bring back traditional stack-motor models such as the Panama, Ventura, Delta II and the Zephyr.
- Stop using 153X15 motors for 52" fans with extra-wide blades!
- The new mounting system and switch housings? They're garbage. Traditional Installers Choice and traditional switch housings for the win.
Does anybody else think HunterBlanca has some life left in it?
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Post by Cole S. on Apr 19, 2015 20:03:31 GMT -5
This is a cool concept, and I want one when they come out. I am guessing these don't work for Hang-Tru? Will not fit in a Hang-Tru, with some minor modification you could mount the receiver in the motor housing of a stack motor fan though. They are now available on Amazon, or were last I saw. What's the range like? I know BlueTooth generally is more of a close-range radio.. I'd think the concept of the light turning on when you get near to the fan would be pretty simple in this age of electronics, I wouldn't be surprised if we see if very soon. I'm sure its out there somewhere if you looked far enough. It's listed as an 80' range. I'm not sure how accurate that is because I have no good way of measuring and testing it, but I went to the other side of the basement and it worked from there. Would certainly work on a high ceiling or a reasonably large room with no major issue. I may be mistaken, but I think SenseME on the Haiku has capability to turn on the light or fan when you enter a room. The name alone kind of suggests it lol. I'm sure it's not far off for other systems, but again, SenseME is a much more advanced system than SIMPLEconnect or fanSync. I was just going to post a thread about this control, however you beat me to it It's awesome that Hunter is actually putting in some effort for once. Albeit a bit tacky in some respects, it does seem high quality and that's definitely nice to see. If they do indeed value your opinion, would you mind telling HunterBlanca the following: - Bring back traditional stack-motor models such as the Panama, Ventura, Delta II and the Zephyr.
- Stop using 153X15 motors for 52" fans with extra-wide blades!
- The new mounting system and switch housings? They're garbage. Traditional Installers Choice and traditional switch housings for the win.
Does anybody else think HunterBlanca has some life left in it?
I personally have never lost any respect for Hunter/Casablanca controls and certain other accessories. I was just talking to someone about this, as much as I dislike IT going away, the new control systems they're introducing (particularly the universally adaptable ones), are generally quite good. They don't replace IT or AT for me, nothing will until they have six speeds (DC doesn't count), but I can't say the new controls are bad. I could tell them all that but it wouldn't make any difference. They can value my opinion, but I don't make business decisions for them. In reality, what they've been doing is making a series of very good business decisions for themselves. I think it's been a rough few years, but someday it might turn out beneficial. I'll admit, when the new Casablanca designs started coming out, I was upset, angry, sad, spiteful... You name it. I was at the forefront of trash talking, but you'll not find me in that position anymore. Hunter has started reinventing itself recently and Casablanca is on its way to a new era as well, I think there's a lot more to come so I refuse to participate in bad-mouthing.
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Post by Max C. on Apr 19, 2015 23:02:39 GMT -5
I personally have never lost any respect for Hunter/Casablanca controls and certain other accessories. I was just talking to someone about this, as much as I dislike IT going away, the new control systems they're introducing (particularly the universally adaptable ones), are generally quite good. They don't replace IT or AT for me, nothing will until they have six speeds (DC doesn't count), but I can't say the new controls are bad. I could tell them all that but it wouldn't make any difference. They can value my opinion, but I don't make business decisions for them. In reality, what they've been doing is making a series of very good business decisions for themselves. I think it's been a rough few years, but someday it might turn out beneficial. I'll admit, when the new Casablanca designs started coming out, I was upset, angry, sad, spiteful... You name it. I was at the forefront of trash talking, but you'll not find me in that position anymore. Hunter has started reinventing itself recently and Casablanca is on its way to a new era as well, I think there's a lot more to come so I refuse to participate in bad-mouthing. Honestly, I still don't know how to feel about all this. In the end though, it comes personal tastes and standards. I agree that pointlessly badmouthing a company accomplishes nothing (for example: "any and all new Hampton Bay fans suck!!!"), however constructive criticism and honest observations are never a bad thing. I've had the opportunity to work with some post-2011 and even some current Hunter models. Every time I come up with one basic conclusion: the motor is undersized. Don't forget, Hunter was purchased by an investment company whose main objective is profit. However, Noah does make a good point when he says the new Panama isn't actually a terrible fan (in fact, the argument could be made that it's better better than a lot of other showroom fans on the market). That being said, a lot of us here still find the new Panamas shameful as compared to the old ones, which also wouldn't be inaccurate. All in all, it depends who you ask. There are individuals out there who love the new Hunter models and have no problem at all with the way they perform. Other will say that they are among the worst ceiling fans ever made. Yet other still don't care either way and are perfectly happy with their vintage Hunter models. Everybody knows what's suits them in the end...
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Post by Jordan U on Apr 20, 2015 6:25:50 GMT -5
I personally have never lost any respect for Hunter/Casablanca controls and certain other accessories. I was just talking to someone about this, as much as I dislike IT going away, the new control systems they're introducing (particularly the universally adaptable ones), are generally quite good. They don't replace IT or AT for me, nothing will until they have six speeds (DC doesn't count), but I can't say the new controls are bad. I could tell them all that but it wouldn't make any difference. They can value my opinion, but I don't make business decisions for them. In reality, what they've been doing is making a series of very good business decisions for themselves. I think it's been a rough few years, but someday it might turn out beneficial. I'll admit, when the new Casablanca designs started coming out, I was upset, angry, sad, spiteful... You name it. I was at the forefront of trash talking, but you'll not find me in that position anymore. Hunter has started reinventing itself recently and Casablanca is on its way to a new era as well, I think there's a lot more to come so I refuse to participate in bad-mouthing. This is a very interesting viewpoint. Granted you know much more about both companies than I do, but I'm not seeing how they're reinventing themselves. I could see why in short this was a good business decision for them, I'm sure they're making more money than ever, but eventually they're going to loose their reputation with absolute fails like the Oakhurst, which just doesn't perform. If you read customer reviews, there are so many that say they returned the fan because it didn't spin fast enough and/or more enough air. I don't personally like a lot of the styles that they put out now, but that's not something that I count against them. The only thing I'd count against them is the performance lack. What are they doing to get into a new era, and what is it going to look like? Do you think they're going to return to a company of quality?
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Post by Cole S. on Apr 20, 2015 18:34:08 GMT -5
First I will say, I don't disagree with anything here. And I don't want this to be a whole argument but I've just really been over everyone talking about every new fan besides Fanimation or Emerson being crappy. It's a new age, and yes, they're mostly crappy compared to our vintage fans, but we pretty much need to set a new standard for fans sold today. There's little to nothing on the market now that has any ties to what was on the market 20 or 30 years ago, due to a number of factors. We can't keep saying every new fan is a piece of junk just by comparing them to older fans. That was alright when high end brands were still putting out practically the same products as in the 90s, but that's not how it is anymore and we need to consider that when dealing with new fans. It's a different perspective.
Now don't get me wrong either, I think there's a ton of work to be done for both Hunter and Casablanca. Yes, the motors are undersized. Yes, some of the new designs are fugly, but they're just following/setting design trends so what are we gonna do. I actually like the new Casablanca Crestmont, there are aspects of it that take me back to Casablanca of the 90s so I don't think all hope is lost in the design department, and I'll leave that there. As far as the motors, I feel that's going to be a temporary issue in the long run. They're not optimized for the new larger blade styles and spans that have become popular which is a big part of the problem, but DC is where it's going to be eventually and it's gonna change the game. I know there's still skepticism with DC, but there really is no going backwards to stack motors so we might as well look forward to the next technology. In my opinion, some of the recent changes are not simply for profit either. Casablanca, for example. XLP is never going to meet the energy standards that the DOE is going to be pushing for long term, at least not without total re-engineering probably to the point that it's a different motor altogether anyways. I have no insight into their logic, but it's my opinion that they've converted much of the lineup to other types of motors to avoid scrambling if something changes all of a sudden. That whole thing a few years back that prompted the creation of National Ceiling Fan Day was a bit of a wakeup call, it was around that time when we started to see the new designs surfacing at Casablanca. Again, I'm not saying any of that is correct, but I'm really trying to put pieces together in order to remain optimistic that Hunter/Casablanca isn't simply going cheap. They like to please the investment firm in that regard, but there is also some commitment to quality still there.
You're not going to see the reinvention of Hunter in the fans, well I guess you can but so far it hasn't been good. The reinvention I'm seeing is in the company itself, with the people, and now with some of the products. Online I've read some of those company reviews from employees or former employees and a lot of them complain that Hunter is really old fashioned, they don't like new ideas and haven't catered to the new generation. Something has clicked in the past couple years, they're hugely engaged in social media now which is a major aspect for younger generations, their recently redesigned and updated website is also a factor that I think plays into that. With SIMPLEconnect they've embraced the young generation's craving for technology, even though there's not a huge demand for this exact type of product yet. I honestly thought Emerson would introduce one of these systems way before Hunter would. They've also returned to their roots, with the new John Hunter emphasis. I always feel that's a good thing. When companies start remembering where they came from there's a little bit more pride in the product. I agree, what they've been doing with the fans has not been good for the reputation. But I hope, as the market starts to settle into this new era of regulations and technological advances, that we will see some better things.
In the end, who knows? Hunter and Casablanca could die tomorrow, what do I know? I just don't see the harm in trying to see past the bad things and praising the good things.
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Post by Max C. on Apr 20, 2015 19:18:20 GMT -5
First I will say, I don't disagree with anything here. And I don't want this to be a whole whole argument but I've just really been over everyone talking about every new fan besides Fanimation or Emerson being crappy. It's a new age, and yes, they're mostly crappy compared to our vintage fans, but we pretty much need to set a new standard for fans sold today. There's little to nothing on the market now that has any ties to what was on the market 20 or 30 years ago, due to a number of factors. We can't keep saying every new fan is a piece of junk just by comparing them to older fans. That was alright when high end brands were still putting out practically the same products as in the 90s, but that's not how it is anymore and we need to consider that when dealing with new fans. It's a different perspective. I agree with this. There are still a few (not just two) companies that have a decent fan line-up. Minka Aire for example sells some excellent quality spinner motor fans for today's standards (Hampton Bay's versions are also quite good). Or, More notably, Gulf Coast. Now don't get me wrong either, I think there's a ton of work to be done for both Hunter and Casablanca. Yes, the motors are undersized. Yes, some of the new designs are fugly, but they're just following/setting design trends so what are we gonna do. I actually like the new Casablanca Crestmont, there are aspects of it that take me back to Casablanca of the 90s so I don't think all hope is lost in the design department, and I'll leave that there. As far as the motors, I feel that's going to be a temporary issue in the long run. They're not optimized for the new larger blade styles and spans that have become popular which is a big part of the problem, but DC is where it's going to be eventually and it's gonna change the game. I know there's still skepticism with DC, but there really is no going backwards to stack motors so we might as well look forward to the next technology. In my opinion, some of the recent changes are not simply for profit either. Casablanca, for example. XLP is never going to meet the energy standards that the DOE is going to be pushing for long term, at least not without total re-engineering probably to the point that it's a different motor altogether anyways. I have no insight into their logic, but it's my opinion that they've converted much of the lineup to other types of motors to avoid scrambling if something changes all of a sudden. That whole thing a few years back that prompted the creation of National Ceiling Fan Day was a bit of a wakeup call, it was around that time when we started to see the new designs surfacing at Casablanca. Again, I'm not saying any of that is correct, but I'm really trying to put pieces together in order to remain optimistic that Hunter/Casablanca isn't simply going cheap. They like to please the investment firm in that regard, but there is also some commitment to quality still there. A ton of work is an understatement There are some decent-looking Casablanca fans on the market as of now (The Heritage II, Ainsworth and 52" Utopian just to name a few), however while a few of them blow decent air, the majority of them don't. I believe stack motor fans still have great potential, and certainly serve an important role in the fan market (the Emerson Southtowne, for example). There are some things that spinner motors simply can't compete with, no matter how good they are (AC or DC). You're not going to see the reinvention of Hunter in the fans, well I guess you can but so far it hasn't been good. The reinvention I'm seeing is in the company itself, with the people, and now with some of the products. Online I've read some of those company reviews from employees or former employees and a lot of them complain that Hunter is really old fashioned, they don't like new ideas and haven't catered to the new generation. Something has clicked in the past couple years, they're hugely engaged in social media now which is a major aspect for younger generations, their recently redesigned and updated website is also a factor that I think plays into that. With SIMPLEconnect they've embraced the young generation's craving for technology, even though there's not a huge demand for this exact type of product yet. I honestly thought Emerson would introduce one of these systems way before Hunter would. They've also returned to their roots, with the new John Hunter emphasis. I always feel that's a good thing. When companies start remembering where they came from there's a little bit more pride in the product. I agree, what they've been doing with the fans has not been good for the reputation. But I hope, as the market starts to settle into this new era of regulations and technological advances, that we will see some better things. The problem with Hunter is that they've become a trendy company as opposed to an industry leader regarding quality. Sure they appeal to the next-generation of home buyers, however do they strive for excellence? No. Hunter (and especially Casablanca) used to be about getting a quality product, and something that looked nice too. Now, their modern and trendy designs have become their main focus, and quality is a mere afterthought (at best). Pretty much, they've developed the Harbor Breeze mentality. In the end, who knows? Hunter and Casablanca could die tomorrow, what do I know? I just don't see the harm in trying to see past the bad things and praising the good things. There is still some hope here. Jordan does make a good point when he says people are getting fed up with Hunter though...
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Post by Jordan U on Apr 21, 2015 9:03:24 GMT -5
There is still some hope here. Jordan does make a good point when he says people are getting fed up with Hunter though... I think if Hunter doesn't get their act together with the motors within the next few years, people are going to catch on. When the $50 store brand fan siting next to the $200 Hunter moves more air, the Hunters just won't sell.. The problem with Hunter is that they've become a trendy company as opposed to an industry leader regarding quality. Sure they appeal to the next-generation of home buyers, however do they strive for excellence? No. Hunter (and especially Casablanca) used to be about getting a quality product, and something that looked nice too. Now, their modern and trendy designs have become their main focus, and quality is a mere afterthought (at best). Pretty much, they've developed the Harbor Breeze mentality. This is true. In some cases, the Harbor Breeze actually performs better.. The problem here is with the expensive Hunter sitting beside the cheap Harbor Breeze, the Harbor Breeze is going to win every time, especially if its know that it blows more. It's a new age, and yes, they're mostly crappy compared to our vintage fans, but we pretty much need to set a new standard for fans sold today. There's little to nothing on the market now that has any ties to what was on the market 20 or 30 years ago, due to a number of factors. We can't keep saying every new fan is a piece of junk just by comparing them to older fans. This is a very interesting remark, I like the concept. The reality is that all the companies are decreasing in quality, maybe some faster than others, but they're all going down hill. The standard of which we evaluate current fans at does need to be dropped otherwise everything is garbage and that's the end of it, there is no hope for any given models. As far as the motors issue goes, I'm one of those people that is resistant to the switch to DC motors, for a number of reasons, primarily because it will make the ceiling fan a much more complex appliance with more Chinese built components to fail. It would be nice if the DC motors were maybe a little better sized, but personally I'd take a large spinner motor over a DC motor. Unfortunately the stack motors are done for, people choose efficiency over quality now, and the average buyer doesn't know the stack motor's benefits. I don't really have anything wrong with spinner motors, as long as they're properly sized. The integration of technology is another thing I'm not fond of. Their new website does nothing for me, in fact I don't like it. With all the Flash enabled images and script interactions, it takes forever to load on my aging computer. I don't do social media so if they're on there or not makes no difference to me. That is good that the employees are becoming happier working there, and that does lend some hope for the brand, but at the end of the day for me as an outside consumer, it has little effect.. The issue I have with integration of technology is nothing specific to Hunter. As much as I like technology, there is such a thing as over use. I guess I'm just old fashined, but I despise electronics integration into every day machines. I see no reason why refrigerators, washing machines, air conditioners, thermostats, pretty much any common household appliance today needs to come with a bloated, gimmicky (and often very poorly designed) set of electronic controls, replacing mechanical switches, dials and relays which have been working reliably for years, are easy to repair or replace if necessary and don't glitch out or get errors! Ceiling fans--I was to turn a dial on my wall and it starts up--not sit there fidgeting with an i-Fone to get it to work, I haven't got time for that (that's not an attack on Hunter's latest product, that's just my opinion in general). Electronics sells everything today, if something has the latest and supposedly 'greatest' electronics in it, people buy it. Look at vehicles, its no longer the engines in them that makes them sell, its whatever outrageous automatic this and that, GPS, cameras, sensors etc.. that people go after. I suppose most people would find this outrageous, but I like my carbureted engine and manual tranmission much better! Now this is turning into an electronics rant which its not supposed to, so I'll end it there for now.
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Post by Cole S. on Apr 21, 2015 23:20:11 GMT -5
There are obviously different planes of vision on these matters, which I think is all fine and dandy and that we've had a good mutually respectful conversation here. I don't think I personally am going to address anything much further since the thread has derailed this far anyways and points have pretty well been made, but I think if nothing else we can take away the statement about reevaluating new fans. The three of us, who have different takes on this, seem to agree on the concept that maybe everyone could take a second look at what the market is today. I think that's a great starting point, so that maybe we can see a little less of everything being total junk. I just find it old when every conversation regarding a new fan has the same kind of dismal sentiments all the time. The point overall is that there is no compromising old fans for the new or vice versa, we can have educated conversations regarding both and nothing has to be purely negative.
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