Monty Ward doesn't work!

[bwoodruff06]

Hey guys...

SO I finally got that Monty Ward fan from the ebay auction...but when I tested it out, no go. I hooked up an old wire & plug to it (the kind that goes to a lamp or swag kit) and plugged it in...and nothing. No noise, no attempts to go, just silence. Any ideas what it could be, or what I could do to fix it?

thanks,
Brian

[bwoodruff06]

Nevermind! haha. looks like when i was cleaning it, one of the wires came out of that black thing with the four tiny screws (no idea what it's called). Anyhoo, realised that, put the white wire back in...now it whirrs nicely. As soon as I get it hung, and the wall control in the mail, I'll put up pics!

[Deleted]

Cant wait to see. i know what little black thing your talking about too. i've completely opened up all parts of my envirofan trying to restore it after a failed painting attempt, its been quite a project but i hope to get mine mounted and working hopefully soon too.

[bwoodruff06]

Got the fan up...kinda ghetto wired for now. Pics to come soon. Did notice that on the lowest speed (5), the fan goes extremely slow...something like 32 RPM's. Is that normal? On high it goes the normal super-fast speed. Could it just be age that makes is go slow on low? Not that I'm really complaining, I like the slow speed, just wondered if it's something to be concerned with.

[organist89]

bwoodruff06 said:

Got the fan up...kinda ghetto wired for now. Pics to come soon. Did notice that on the lowest speed (5), the fan goes extremely slow...something like 32 RPM's. Is that normal? On high it goes the normal super-fast speed. Could it just be age that makes is go slow on low? Not that I'm really complaining, I like the slow speed, just wondered if it's something to be concerned with.

Old age doesn't make fans run slowly. They're machines, not humans. That being said, old age is the most common cause of things like bearing breakdown, which definitely can make the fan run slowly. But if that were the case, you'd notice visible resistance, noise, and it most likely wouldn't be going super fast on the highest speed.

It's totally normal for the fan to go anywhere between 30 and 50 RPMs on the slowest speed. Those chokes (surface-mounted wall speed regulators) typically had a very high resistance on the lowest speed. If the fan is 42" or larger, and the choke has 5 or more speeds, it's likely to have a really slow low speed. I had a 48" spinner like you have, with the choke, and I got mine NIB on eBay, and it had a very slow low speed. I can say the same about all the other ones I've encountered in stores and homes.

[Deleted]

on my envirofan with the same monty ward speed control, speed 5 (low) seemed more like medium, and 1 was super fast of course.

[bwoodruff06]

So here's another question...could cold temperatures affect the fan or the choke control? The fan is in my garage, so it it fairly cold out there (but well protected from all the other elements). Today when I turned the fan on speed 5, it came to a complete stop! Works fine on all the other speeds, and yesterday speed 5 worked. Any advice??

[bwoodruff06]

On closer inspection, it seems that all the speeds except for High are running a bit slower than yesterday.

[organist89]

bwoodruff06 said:

So here's another question...could cold temperatures affect the fan or the choke control? The fan is in my garage, so it it fairly cold out there (but well protected from all the other elements). Today when I turned the fan on speed 5, it came to a complete stop! Works fine on all the other speeds, and yesterday speed 5 worked. Any advice??

Cold cannot affect the choke--actually, it would make the fan run faster...heat adds resistance, so the colder a conductor is the better it conducts--hence we have what are called "superconductors", which function only at Absolute Zero (-459.67 degrees Fahrenheit, the temperature at which molecules stop moving). Anyhow, this is pointless to pursue...while the cold in your garage will make the choke work better, it's to so small a degree that the whole issue is rendered irrelevant...like the fact that when you get out of the ocean, the water clinging to your body causes the sea level to drop. Technically, it's true, but it's completely irrelevant due to the minuscule magnitude.

Cold can, however, affect the fan motor itself. And in a lot of my experiences, it has. Fans run really well anywhere between 60 degrees and 120 degrees. As it gets hotter, the electrical functionability lessens...which is why computers have fans in them...heat kills electrical performance. Capacitors hate heat, and love cold. But bearings are the opposite...they love heat (as long as it's not the kind caused by friction due to a lack of oil), but they hate cold. Spinner motors have "permanently lubricated bearings"--which is a complete lie. If the fan receives little to moderate use, as it does in the home of your average consumer who runs it a few times during the summer months, and has a life expectancy of 20 years maximum (since blades warp, and since people like to change styles), then it's unlikely that any problems will develop. The bearings will hold up for the short life of the fan. No matter what type of motor--spinner, stack (K55-style), SPI (Hunter Original and antique fans)--it needs oil. We all know to oil our Originals. Lots of collectors, when they find an old Emerson or something else with a stack motor, will break it apart and clean/flush everything and then pump the bearings full of new oil and reseal them. Doing so is good--it ups the performance and life expectancy, while getting rid of noise. But cheap Oriental spinner motors, like the kind in a builder fan, aren't designed to be used heavily for 150 years the way an Original motor is. So they use cheap oil (or grease, as the case may be) and seal the thing shut and send it on its way. In reality, this is bad for several reasons. First is the fact that little itty bitty bits of the bearings shave off over the years, and gum up the works. In addition, infiltrates such as dust and moisture get in there and tend to not come back out. And, like any petroleum product, oil and grease simply just biodegrade over time. So between all of those factors, you eventually end up with a fan that makes a scraping noise and doesn't spin too well. That added friction is often enough to burn the cheap little motor out. Anyhow, my guess is that your fan is sluggish because it's an older model with a cheap spinner motor, and because petroleum products (oil/grease) become more viscous (thicker) with decreasing temperature. Put it somewhere warm and let it thaw--give it some hot cocoa and a good book--and it'll prolly be exactly like it was yesterday.

Ideally, you would break the thing apart, open up the bearings, clean and flush them, and refill them with grease or oil, whatever they use. Use a high-quality SYNTHETIC grease or oil, and you'll do much better than using actual petroleum. On the other hand, the bearings could be totally shot and need replacing...but since the fan worked fine and went really fast yesterday, I think it's just a matter of cleaning and re-greasing with a synthetic. Synthetics aren't so prone to chemical breakdown and temperature-related viscosity.

It's normal for an older, large (48"+) fan with a cheap spinner motor to not work on the lowest speed(s) in really cold temperatures...the motor has pretty much no torque at that speed, and the resistance provided by the thickened bearing oil/grease is enough to stop the thing dead in its tracks.

[bwoodruff06]

thanks.

[Deleted]

you always have such good detalied writeups pierce!

[Deleted]

bwoodruff06 said:

Got the fan up...kinda ghetto wired for now. Pics to come soon. Did notice that on the lowest speed (5), the fan goes extremely slow...something like 32 RPM's. Is that normal? On high it goes the normal super-fast speed. Could it just be age that makes is go slow on low? Not that I'm really complaining, I like the slow speed, just wondered if it's something to be concerned with.

Is the control original to the fan? What does it say on it? There should be a label designating what size fan it's designed for.

[Deleted]

organist89 said:

It's totally normal for the fan to go anywhere between 30 and 50 RPMs on the slowest speed.

No, not for the Evergos with the transformer based controls. 50, maybe, but it's usually faster. 30 definitely not. The "choke" controls as you call them do not yield the aesthetically slow low speeds you can get from an infinitely variable control.

[Deleted]

bwoodruff06 said:

So here's another question...could cold temperatures affect the fan or the choke control? The fan is in my garage, so it it fairly cold out there (but well protected from all the other elements). Today when I turned the fan on speed 5, it came to a complete stop! Works fine on all the other speeds, and yesterday speed 5 worked. Any advice??

Sounds like you definitely have bearing issues. The fan needs to be oiled, or the bearings replaced. I presume it doesnt spin as freely by hand as it is supposed to.

[Deleted]

organist89 said:

But bearings are the opposite...they love heat (as long as it's not the kind caused by friction due to a lack of oil), but they hate cold.

Not so. Heat will cause oil to deteriorate, thus creating the "Dry bearings" condition you mention. Motors that run at cooler temperatures have better bearing life.

And, rather than re-greasing bearings, just replace them. They are very cheap and easy to replace.