Vintage Emerson conked out. Diagnosis wanted, please.

[z99]

I've got two 1980's vintage Emerson CF523WA fans that have been running beautifully for a long time - until now!
They are both pull-chain models with 3 speeds. Which might be unusual because I only see 2-speed models on the forum. But they do look just like the photos I've seen on the forum.
Anyhow, I don't know diddly about motors, etc., but I could replace a capacitor, if that's what the problem is.
One fan is still running, although the slowest speed cut out long ago and it's been running on the medium speed for a while now with no problems. It switches to high when the chain is pulled.
The other fan, which has had far more use, just stopped running.
And the body of the motor is too hot to touch. Over 150 degrees F by my digital thermometer.
But there are no burning smells or leaks coming from the motor.
But the fan had to be unplugged before it would cool down.
I assume that means that the switch was still in an open position.
I think I've figured out that the capacitor is located beneath the top housing, but I'm still waiting for the darn thing to cool down enough to handle.
However, just based on what you know already, would you say that the capacitor is the problem and can be replaced, or has the motor finally come to the end of the road?
Or is there another possibility?
Thanks for your help.
DJ

[Obi-Wan Canopy]

Too hot to touch does not sound like a capacitor issue.

How freely do the blades turn?

[z99]

Thanks for your help.
The fan blades move freely and smoothly.
I imagine that the motor would have seized up if it burned out, no?

I took out the capacitor and tried to measure it with an electric meter, but got no reading whatsoever.
The possibility exists that I didn't measure it correctly, but I don't think so. Electricity isn't my strong suit. (But you probably figured that out already! :~o)
However, I thought that even a bad capacitor would still register something, no?
The capacitor is not round but oval as if there was more than enough room inside it for two AA batteries.
There is a bubble on top of the capacitor, not huge, but big enough to indicate burn out (I think).
Size of the bubble stretches for about half the area as the nail on my little finger.
I have taken some pictures. Now let's see if my photo posting skills are better than my electrical skills!
Hmm, have investigated how to post photos, but don't see an "attachment button" here... Or is that just a feature that is not included with "Quick Replies?"

So maybe I can describe it.
On top of the cap are two poles with four blades on each pole (N-S-E-W).
Red wire attached to one pole. A black wire on one spade of second pole, and a blue wire on another spade.
Printed on the side:
MALLORY 810NCL
CAPACITOR
4MFD
370 VAC
60 HZ ?-I think 60, but the first # is not clear at all.
_432-0002-002 (Again this first # is not clear.)
32NC3704
PROTECTED
65661 NO PCBS
Stamped on the bottom: Sept 24 1988

I also uncovered the switch and there's no evidence of burn out.

I think it might be worth investing in a new capacitor, but where to find one?
Since this is a three-speed fan, I thought there would be more than one marking for MFD's, no?
Well, it's a learning experience.
Thanks in advance for any help.

[Obi-Wan Canopy]

Bad capacitor = no current to the aux coil = little or no heat to the motor. It should be cool or warm to the touch, not hot. Something else is wrong.

That said if you want to try a replacement capacitor they can be had on eBay for around $5.

This fan was discontinued long before 1988 so I wonder if someone has already been inside it?

I dont see any pictures.

[z99]

Thanks, Obi-
I hear you about the heat issue, but don't know what else to suspect.
Hmm, there's an auxiliary coil???Attachment Deleted
Where might that be? Inside the motor?
From the little I've been able to learn just the bubble in the top of the capacitor housing means it's a goner.
And there's no reading at all on the meter.
I'll let you know what happens after I replace the capacitor.
I'm fairly certain this fan has not been worked on since new.
Nice fans though. I like their solid, simple build.
I think I've finally figured out how to post photos.
Looks to me like you must first post your reply and then edit it to add attachments.
Let's see if it works.
Yea, that's the way to go, but I'll have to reduce the size of the other pix to make them fit.
So I'll add a couple more later.
Thanks again.

[z99]

Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
-More photos-

[z99]

The capacitor that is to be replaced is rated: 4MFD 370 VAC
The available options are not exactly the same.
Here they are:
1) 12.5uF 370VAC
2) 4 MFD 660 VAC
3) 7.5 MFD run type oval 370vac
4) 4 MFD VAC 440
5) 25 MFD @ 370 VAC
6) 370 VAC 3 MFD
Which number is more crucial - the MFD or the VAC?
Or must the replacement capacitor be exactly the same?

[z99]

Also, I've noticed that these capacitors are rated up to about 158 degrees F.
The motor was above that temp when I first attempted to touch it.
Maybe the motor overheated first and for some other reason and that caused the capacitor to melt?

[Obi-Wan Canopy]

Here is the exact capacitor you need:

www.ebay.com/itm/Run-Capacitor-4-MFD-370v-440v-Oval-Electric-Motor-HVAC-vac-volts-4-uf-370-440-/261504877772?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce2e7c4cc

The value (uf) must be 4. The voltage must be at least whatever the drop across the capacitor is-- probably less than 370v, but to be safe, anything 370v and higher will work.

[Deleted]

emerson heat/naked fan indeed (that explains why it got that hot)

[z99]

Many thanks, Obi. All those numbers were getting a bit confusing.
I'll let you know the results.

And Jeremy- Now why didn't I notice that the fan was naked? Must have something to do with living in a nudist colony. That fan sure feels good when the thermometer climbs.

:~o) Stay cool! Cheers!

[Jordan U]

Aug 3, 2015 17:43:53 GMT -5 z99 said:

The capacitor that is to be replaced is rated: 4MFD 370 VAC
The available options are not exactly the same.
Here they are:
1) 12.5uF 370VAC
2) 4 MFD 660 VAC
3) 7.5 MFD run type oval 370vac
4) 4 MFD VAC 440
5) 25 MFD @ 370 VAC
6) 370 VAC 3 MFD
Which number is more crucial - the MFD or the VAC?
Or must the replacement capacitor be exactly the same?

Of the options listed, numbers 2 and 4 would be acceptable..

[z99]

New capacitor installed and the fan appears to be running beautifully.
Right now the fan body is running at approximately 100 degrees Fahrenheit (on lowest of 3 speeds).
Lowest part of the motor is about 101F, but the upper portion and the switch housing are both below 100F - like 97 or 98.
Handy thing, an infrared thermometer!
I assume this is about normal, but in view of the past problem with overheating I'll keep monitoring the fan for a while.
(Temp here was in the 90's and the motor was too hot to touch -about 150F- after the capacitor had burned out and the blades hadn't been spinning for several hours.)
So maybe there's some other problem?
We'll see.
I will post any problems.
Thanks for all your help!
DJ

[z99]

UPDATE-
That new capacitor works great - but the fan slowly gets incredibly hot!
I'm talking too hot to touch, upwards of 125F and climbing.
So I assume there must be something more seriously wrong inside the motor, or wherever, something too difficult to fix and will  replace the complete fan. Not sure with what!
Looks like that "ventilator" assembly (or whatever it is in that picture that Jeremy posted) that surrounds the motor might have helped a lot, but the fan lasted at least 35 years without it - and it was that week or so of 95F+ temps in July and August that dealt the final blow!
I'll bet they don't make them like that anymore.
Thanks for all your help guys. It's been an education.
DJ

ps- Or does anyone have a good suggestion?

[Jared H.]

I see you have an Emerson Heat Fan. These run notoriously hot. It's just how the fan is, i dont see anything wrong.